topic Re: Doublets created when updating Revit model in Robot Structural Analysis Forum

Doublets created when updating Revit model

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 13:28:43 GMT

Im having issues when updating my Revit model using Robot Structural Analysis link. It keeps creating doublets of every element.

Example.

1 Create structure in Revit

2 Send model to Robot

3 Add loads and supports

4 Send model to Revit <- All elements are recreated in Revit and every beam and column gets a copy.

Anyone else having the same issue?

Re: Doublets created when updating Revit model

Pawel.Pulak — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 13:31:58 GMT

What versions of Revit and Robot are used by you? Both 2015?

Regards,

Re: Doublets created when updating Revit model

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 14:31:33 GMT

Yes both 2015

Re: Doublets created when updating Revit model

Anonymous — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 09:23:04 GMT

Some clarifications/elaborations:

For the problem to manifest, two further conditions need to be met:

1. A calculation needs to be performed in Robot first. The example from my first post should really look like this:

Example.

1 Create structure in Revit

2 Send model to Robot

3 Add loads and supports

4 Perform calculation

5 Send model to Revit/Update model in Revit <- All elements are recreated in Revit and every beam and column gets a copy.

2. There needs to be panel elements in the structure. Exporting a simple frame or a beam to robot, performing a calculation and then sending the model from Robot or updating the model in Revit works fine. This suggest that the issue is connected to the FEM-analysis performed in Robot. The import to Revit is also very slow. Walls appear as walls when sent to Revit, but slabs are split up into a great number of small, rectangular slabs, called "isolated analytical foundations" in the analytical model.

For simple structures(frames/beams), updating works fine, as long as Full automatic load combinations isn't selected. If it is, duplicates appear.

Re: Doublets created when updating Revit model

Pawel.Pulak — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 09:38:35 GMT

Hi Simon,

thank you for this update.

I will look into it closer.

Regards,

Re: Doublets created when updating Revit model

Anonymous — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 17:10:31 GMT

Hi there,

I have the very same problem.

Where shall i unselect the "Full automatic load combinations" ? robort ? revit ? both?

Thanks a lot

Gilles

Re: Doublets created when updating Revit model

Anonymous — Fri, 27 Feb 2015 11:37:25 GMT

In robot: Loads -> Automatic Combinations...

Re: Doublets created when updating Revit model

Pawel.Pulak — Fri, 27 Feb 2015 12:08:10 GMT

Hello,

I was able to reproduce it.

It seems that the reason is using automatic combinations - observed also for frame not containing any slabs or walls.

When transferring back to Revit the message "Incoming model differs significantly from the updated model" is displayed and when accepting it the model is not "updated" but "added". It results in doubling elements.

Have you observed this effect in different situation than described above?

Regards,

Re: Doublets created when updating Revit model

Anonymous — Fri, 27 Feb 2015 12:38:44 GMT

What you have described is the issue we've been struggling with. However, when calculating stuctures containing surface elements (slabs , walls) the same problem occurs even though automatic combinations is disabled.

Thank you for looking into this!

Re: Doublets created when updating Revit model

Pawel.Pulak — Fri, 27 Feb 2015 17:35:34 GMT

Hi Simon,

sniffing around it takes some time:)

Unfortunately I was not able to reproduce it so far for walls and slabs without automatic combinations for the latest update of RSA Pro 2015 (Service Pack 3)

Can you check in Help > Robot - Information > Product Information whether you use the latest version 28.0.3.5472 or something less up-to-date?

SP3 contained some changes related to such effects when linear or surface supports were used (for instance supports below walls).

Regards,

Re: Doublets created when updating Revit model

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 12:22:13 GMT

Hi, the latest version available to us here is 28.0.0.5335 (x64 version), and we're running version 20140905_0730(x64) Update Release 4 of Revit 2015.We'll talk to IT about getting the latest update and get back to you should the problem persist.

Re: Doublets created when updating Revit model

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:22:38 GMT

Thx 🙂

Re: Doublets created when updating Revit model

Anonymous — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 11:50:36 GMT

After updating Robot to the latest version from the Autodesks homepage, duplicates are no longer created for any elements as long as "Full automatic combinations" is disabled, so it seems like we've zeroed in on the problem.

Thanks again for your help!

Re: Doublets created when updating Revit model

Pawel.Pulak — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 14:44:30 GMT

Thank you for the confirmation.

Just a summary of effects in Revit2Robot link discussed in this post and their current status - may be useful for others too

Effects improved in RSA 2015 SP3

Related to defining linear or surface supports - some possible scenarios below

A. For line supports
1/ Defining in Revit the structure containing walls and slabs
2/ Transfer to Robot
3/ Defining in Robot line support and running analysis
4/ Transfer to Revit
5/ Transfer to Robot - the message "Incoming model differs significantly from the updated model" and duplicated elements
B. For surface supports
1/ Defining in Revit the structure containing walls and slabs
2/ Transfer to Robot
3/ Defining in Robot surface support and running analysis
4/ Transfer to Revit - the message "Incoming model differs significantly from the updated model" and duplicated elements

Effects still observed in RSA 2015 SP3

A. Related to automatic combinations - as the scenario below:

1/ creating any structure in Revit
2/ transfer to Robot
3/ defining in Robot automatic code combinations and runing analysis
4/ transfer back to Revit: the message "Incoming model differs significantly from the updated model" is displayed and doubled elements are created in Revit

B. Related to generating in Revit unnecessary isolated foundations - as the scenario below:

1/ Defining in Revit the structure containing walls and slabs
2/ Transfer to Robot
3/ Defining in Robot line supports or surface supports and running analysis
4/ Transfer to Revit: except of defining in Revit the line or area boundary conditions the isolated supports are generated in Revit - corresponding to node positions in Robot where line or surface supports existed

Analogous effects observed when the line or area boundary conditions defined in Revit in step 1/

Both these effects were reported to development team to be improved.

I will update this post when any change is available.

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Best regards,

Re: Doublets created when updating Revit model

Pawel.Pulak — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 15:46:16 GMT

The effects related to automatic combinations were fixed in Service Pack 5 for Autodesk Robot Structural Analysis Professional 2015.

It can be downloaded and installed using Autodesk Application Manager or from this site

---------------------------------------------
If this post answers your question please click the "Accept as Solution" button. It will help everyone to find answer more quickly!

Best regards,