topic Schematics in Revit in Revit MEP Forum

Schematics in Revit

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:51:10 GMT

Hi All,

This is my first post here so hopefully I won't be mocked too much. Right here goes:

Although I am not new to using Revit my current company is having only done one project so far. I have two queries that I need advice on:

1: The company is trying to push the idea of using Revit to manually draft 2D electrical/mechanical/plant schematics. Other engineers at the company and I are opposed to this move as we feel auto CAD is much better suited to the task and we have it already set up for the job. Has any one got any views on this? Can Revit be used effectively to manually draft schematics or are we better off using AutoCAD?

2: If we persist in using Revit for drafting schematics what is the best way to create 2D schematic symbols? The way I have been instructed to do this is to create groups of annotative lines and use these as a "block". These are then further grouped to create a single system "blocks" that can be moved around and connected using lines to build a schematic. I don't think this is the most effective way of using Revit and see it becoming a problem in the future. Are there any better options or are my concerns misplaced?

Thanks

Jake

Re: Schematics in Revit

rudi.roux — Wed, 23 Nov 2016 13:49:15 GMT

Hi @Anonymous,

Welcome to the community!

I won't say that you have invalid questions as quite a few companies ponder around the idea of shifting from AutoCAD to Revit, so no mocking will take place for now! haha...

To answer Question [1]:

Yes, Revit can be used to effectively draw Single Line Diagrams/Schematics for MEP Services.
AutoCAD is suited to do it and because you/your company is possibly more familiar with AutoCAD it might almost feel like "why reinvent the wheel".
Revit has its advantages and disadvantages, but my view is that you can achieve the same result and more with Revit. Everything is moving towards BIM, well, not only now, but for years already and for the most part, mainly the Electrical Discipline managed to "get away" with not fully shifting to BIM.
I'm seeing how consultants who I used to work for, who didn't make the shift to Revit earlier or against some of my advice, are now falling behind or struggling to win tenders due to the lack of their Revit or BIM capabilities.
Another thing is software costs. You can easily complete a project in Revit, even if the info which you receive is in DWG format, but this cannot be done the other way around. So, it does make sense to shift/adapt to Revit. Revit isn't going to go away and I don't think Vanilla AutoCAD will either, but Revit can make your life so much easier.

Let me ask you a question: If I ask you to open any of your projects and ask for the quantity of anything and I want it in Excel format, but before that, I want you to make around 30 changes on 3 different floors. How quickly would you be able to provide me with the info? You'll need to open and revise 3 different DWG files, then do the counts or extract it from the drawing, or populate Excel manually depending on how your files are setup.

I can basically open any project in Revit, have a detailed schedule of every element within the model, it auto-updates as I draw and I can literally provide a comprehensive Excel sheet as soon as I finished with the drawing/design updates. Revit feels like you have more control over more things in one centralized place. I hope this example made sense, efficiency within an office or disciple can greatly be increased.

To answer Question [2]:

Typically, you can have annotation symbols/lines or Groups (Blocks) setup in your project template. The schematics will be drawing in Drafting Views (2D Views not associated with the main model) and typically copy/past the groups and text as you would generally do in AutoCAD. It works on the same principal and then you put that Drafting View on a sheet which you created and the end result would be exactly the same as with AutoCAD.
Why I think it is effective enough in Revit is because you'll be drawing everything manually in AutoCAD, so why not familiarize yourself with Revit and draw it manually there?
I think (hope) that Revit implements auto-creation of single line diagrams soon and if/when they hopefully do, you'll already be familiar with the software.

All and all, I would make the shift to Revit at it is "future proof" as some clients/architects require everything to be done in Revit and this will become more common all over and you would not want to be "left behind".

I can literally talk for hours on this subject, but I hope that the info which I provided answered your questions!

Re: Schematics in Revit

pkolarik — Wed, 23 Nov 2016 14:01:59 GMT

We've been using Revit in-house for a few years now for most disciplines (Water/Wastewater plants being the newest to Revit), however we do our schematics (PID's for instance) in autocad.

We've seen absolutely no good reason to switch to using Revit for those PID's when we have everything already set up to do it quickly and efficiently in autocad. At the end of the day, the tools we use to accomplish our goals are determined by; what is the most efficient and/or what is the best and/or what the client demands.

We have hundreds of symbols set up for use in autocad, and we're very good at creating PID's in autocad, and literally not a single client has ever demanded PID's be done in "BIM" (why would they? After all, "BIM" has nothing to do with 2d PID's).

Some day, maybe, if there's compelling reasons to switch our PID's to Revit we'll look into it. For now, there simply isn't a reason to spend the extra time and money to do the switchover.

Re: Schematics in Revit

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Nov 2016 16:04:10 GMT

Thanks Rudi,

That answers my questions nicely

Cheers,

Jake

Re: Schematics in Revit

rudi.roux — Wed, 23 Nov 2016 17:41:03 GMT

Hi Jake,

Only a pleasure!

Re: Schematics in Revit

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 05:45:58 GMT

I have to spend more time to create the plumbing/heating/cooling/hydronic systems in 3d, but i have to create all system again in 2d, without any bim connections.
One step forward, two step back.

Re: Schematics in Revit

Scott_D_ — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 08:56:11 GMT

Everybody thinks Revit is useless for Schematics until they use it and find that its just the same as AutoCAD except when you move things lines follow what they are attached to etc, its a nicer tool IMO.

Use Detail Items for symbols and Generic Annotations for elements that need several items of text with custom values, I would seldom use Groups although they have their place.

All your sheets for the project come from Revit along with the revision history and all the other data, I can't see a reason to put up with the titleblocks and revision system in AutoCAD when Revit does it so much better.

I have been through the process you are currently going through, with huge initial resistance from users, but it's just a lack of knowledge and familiarity with Revit. Once you bite the bullet and actually use it, it handles schematics just fine.

I used AutoCAD for years, I haven't even got the latest version installed anymore as I virtually never use it. I don't need it as I do everything in Revit.

Re: Schematics in Revit

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 09:08:30 GMT

It's not the problem of having to do it in autocad. But after making the whole system 3d, You have to do it again in 2d. And if you need to modify something, you have to re-check the 2d drawing as well.
Revit has it's own benefits, but this is a big waste of time.
I don't understand why there is no progress in this area?

Re: Schematics in Revit

chris.kershaw — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 09:46:48 GMT

IMO its faster to draw & amend schematics in Revit than it is in Autocad, Plus you have the advantage of all the schematics in the same place the titlesheet is the same one for all your drawings. if its dwgs you increase the change for inconsistency if you change say the project name you only have to do it once in Revit if you have 10 or 20 dwg schematics you would have to change it 10 or 20 times

Re: Schematics in Revit

RobDraw — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 11:07:32 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

It's not the problem of having to do it in autocad. But after making the whole system 3d, You have to do it again in 2d. And if you need to modify something, you have to re-check the 2d drawing as well.
Revit has it's own benefits, but this is a big waste of time.

Did AutoCAD generate your schematics automagically and adjust as changes were made to the 3D? If not, then there is no time wasted.

Re: Schematics in Revit

Scott_D_ — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 11:19:56 GMT

True, but I understand the point they make about Revit not understanding that AHU #1 on the schematic is the same thing as AHU #1 in the model.

For clever software it can be pretty dumb at times.

Re: Schematics in Revit

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 11:25:05 GMT

It's a waste of time to build something in 3D that I do not use. It's embarrassing to have the potential to make something really usable, but it can not be.
All the information is in the Bim model, which must then be typed manually into the 2d plans.

Re: Schematics in Revit

Scott_D_ — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 23:47:50 GMT

Not sure what you are getting at there, is that a reference to plain text instead of automated Tags or am I being dumb?

Re: Schematics in Revit

RobDraw — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 00:14:57 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

It's a waste of time [for me] to build something in 3D that I do not use.

Absolutley!

Re: Schematics in Revit

Martin__Schmid — Mon, 01 May 2017 21:07:17 GMT

Hi Folks-

Those of you that are using an AutoCAD based workflow for your schematics may be interested in something we allude to in the Revit Roadmap related to this topic. In the MEP section, under the Create group, Intelligently Connected Schematics and Models.

For more information, see the Revit Roadmap, and if you're really adventurous, we'd be interested in hearing more from you in the beta forums... there is an email link at the bottom of the Revit Roadmap for access.

Re: Schematics in Revit

Anonymous — Tue, 02 May 2017 06:21:19 GMT

Uh.

Sorry for the long delay and my bad english.
Yes, you are right.

For a big project, this means hundreds of work hours.

Re: Schematics in Revit

Anonymous — Tue, 02 May 2017 14:33:05 GMT

When it will be available on revit mep? it was schedule for 2018 mep revit but I don't see it yet. what do you suggest?

Re: Schematics in Revit

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Oct 2017 17:48:04 GMT

I use detail items in Revit for the diagram symbols so I can attach shared parameters to them. I also use the Parameter Linker by RushForth Projects to link the data between the diagram and the floor plan elements so you can do some quick quality checks. It can also help you create any diagram or floor plan elements if there are discrepancies and they are missing on one or the others. Full disclosure, I wrote the Parameter Linker software because of the gaps in the process I needed to do my job effectively (including non-diagram related processes). Even if you don't link the data in Revit, it is still better to draw the diagrams in Revit for a bunch of reasons. It does, however, require some time to build your symbol and content library.

Re: Schematics in Revit

Martin__Schmid — Mon, 02 Oct 2017 18:05:12 GMT

Hi pkolarik - have you taken a look at Revit P&ID Modeler? This connects Revit to AutoCAD P&ID drawings, enabling you to more efficiently model in Revit, and does validation between the platforms.

Re: Schematics in Revit

Martin__Schmid — Mon, 02 Oct 2017 18:07:43 GMT

Hi p.baudin - P&ID Modeler was released about a month ago... if you have Revit 2018.1 installed, it should show up for you in the Autodesk Desktop Application.