topic Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors in Revit MEP Forum

Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

Anonymous — Thu, 08 Dec 2016 11:37:14 GMT

I am trying to use power connectors, in this case the balanced power connector, to circuit equipment on a project. I need help understanding how to use them. When I place one and click on it to reveal its properties it reveals that everything under "Electrical - Loads" is grayed out. It reveals under the "General" Heading "Panel Name". A couple of questions:

1. Is "Panel Name" the name to be given to the connector?

2. Do I "Edit Type" and duplicate to make unique equipment connections in each case? Seems like equipment name, load, load classification, etc., would be instance parameters to be used as I need it.

Thanks.

Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

m.voss.alvine — Thu, 08 Dec 2016 14:13:58 GMT

what kind of equipment are you trying to connect? The "panel name" is where you specify the name of the panel. If "panel name" is appearing, it sound like your equipment is defined as a "Panelboard" under the "Family Category and Parameters" . If you post a screenshot, we may be able to help you more.

Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

Anonymous — Thu, 08 Dec 2016 15:50:25 GMT

If "Panel Name" is an available parameter, the load values are gray because they'll be defined by the loads assigned to the equipment/devices downstream of that panel. You can't just assign a load value to a panel, you have to create a system for which the panel is the source.

If the family you're using isn't intended to be a branch/distribution panelboard, you need to edit the family and change the category.

Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

fabiosato — Thu, 08 Dec 2016 20:36:33 GMT

Hello,

In the project, each electrical category has a different behavior, check carefully what you want to achieve.

Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

Anonymous — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 12:09:49 GMT

So it sound like this is not the device I want to use. I simply want to connect a variety of equipment (Exhaust Fans, Air handling units, pumps, etc,) all either three phase or single phase 480 volt or 208 volt. None of this equipment has electrical properties or at least most of them and nor am I at the point where I can take advantage if they do have electrical connectors. Could be anything from an oven to a sterilizer. For now I just want to set up a load connection and define the parameters (volts, phase, KVA, description etc.,) that will tie back to a panelboard. How do I do that?

So, the connectors are defined as Panels? So you have to tie a load to a connector and then tie the connector to a panel? I guess I need to get more information on how connectors work. In the mean time how do I connect loads to my panelboards as described above?

Thanks.

Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

Anonymous — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 12:13:36 GMT

Why do we need a connector if we already have panelboards? Is it meant for things like wireways with multiple taps from a set of conductors?

Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

Anonymous — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 12:17:12 GMT

Also see my reply to Mitchell. I just want user defined single loads point that I can connect to a panelboard and define voltage, phase, KVA for that individual load.

Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

Anonymous — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 12:45:47 GMT

For now I just want to set up a load connection and define the parameters (volts, phase, KVA, description etc.,) that will tie back to a panelboard. How do I do that?

Whoa. OK, here's what you need - edit each of those families. Make sure they have an electrical connector element in them (this is the model component that carries the load data from the equipment to the distribution source/panel). Each connector will have a set of properties, volt/# of poles, apparent load, etc. Map each of these properties of the connector element to a corresponding parameter in the family - I recommend using type parameters for most larger pieces of equipment and instance parameters for receptacles and the like. Now when you load the families back into the project you can define the electrical characteristics of the equipment in the project environment, either through the Properties palette (instance parameters) or Edit Type (type parameters).

To create systems (circuits), select all of the devices you want to be ganged on a common circuit, choose the Power button from the ribbon, and presto, they're a circuit.

To connect these circuits back to a panel, select the panel and assign a distribution system to it (208/120 or 480/277 if you're in the US). Once you've done that, go back to the devices/equipment, select any one of them, choose Edit Circuit, then choose the appropriate panel.

Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

Anonymous — Sat, 10 Dec 2016 19:57:59 GMT

When you say "edit each one of those families" I don't know quite what you mean. I think I am having trouble explaining myself.

The equipment that I am trying to connect is mostly mechanical equipment. However I have some equipment which doesn't have electrical connectors at all. For instance we have a sterilizer that I have to connect. No electrical properties or connector. Just a box with dimensions from the Architectural model. The electrical requirements are 208 volt, three phase, 30 KW. I need to connect it to a panelboard so I have to have some generic power connection point that I can input data and connect it to a panelboard.

We are doing the Architectural, Mechanical, Electrical and plumbing for the project. Architectural, Plumbing, Mechanical and Electrical all of separate models. Some of the mechanical equipment has electrical data listed in its properties. I don't know if it has an electrical connector but even if it does at this point I wouldn't know how to use it or edit for my use. So for those two I want a connection I can use to represent this equipment and feed it from a panelboard. Thus I was tring to use the "Electrical Equipment - Balanced Power Connector" for the job.

Question: Should I use the 1, 2 or 3-pole junction box instead?

I want to Edit Type, Duplicate and create independent power connection for all this equipment if that can be done.

Thanks.

Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

Anonymous — Mon, 12 Dec 2016 13:34:28 GMT

When you say "edit each one of those families" I don't know quite what you mean.

I mean that to create the electrical connectors you need to open the families independently - you can't add electrical connectors in the project environment.

Revit has two working modes - project and family editor. Families are loaded into a project and within that project parameter values can be edited. To add/remove connectors, add/remove parameters, or change the geometry you have to edit the family directly. You can either open the family (*.rfa) file directly from the Revit home screen, or select an object in a model and click "Edit Family" in the ribbon.

However, since all of the equipment you need to circuit appears to be in a separate linked model, I'd recommend simply using a j-box or motor family to create your circuits rather than screwing around trying to edit the families in someone else's model.

Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

Anonymous — Tue, 13 Dec 2016 14:36:05 GMT

I am using the junction box to connect the equipment. I am going to have to study electrical connectors. I am still not quite sure how they need be used.

Thanks.

Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

Anonymous — Tue, 13 Dec 2016 14:47:15 GMT

The connectors (electrical, conduit, supply/return air, water, etc.) are the part of the family that creates and stores system data. Without them you can't really use Revit to its full potential - it'd just be a 3D model with no data behind it.

Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

Anonymous — Tue, 13 Dec 2016 15:14:43 GMT

I think I understand what they are used for but perhaps you can confirm my understanding. A receptacle and other electrical families require a connector in order to connect them to your power system. Light fixtures and receptacles for instance contain electrical connectors so that you can connect them to the power distribution system. I just don't know what to do with a generic electrical connector. Do you modify them to include annotation and contain electrical characteristics to be used as a family in the project? I could create an electrical pump or some other item for example to include in the project.

Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

fabiosato — Thu, 15 Dec 2016 22:07:21 GMT

Hello,

By generic electrical connectors you refers to communication, data, fire alarm, nurse call, security and telephone ones? These are used if you need to create a logical connection from a panel, (other panel part type) with the same type of connector, to the outlets or points of connection.

If you refer to control, it works similar to switches.

Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

Anonymous — Fri, 16 Dec 2016 13:16:17 GMT

When I say generic electrical connectors in my case I am strictly talking about power. I realize that there are connectors for other systems but I really haven't got into those just yet. Revit comes with families of Electrical Equipment Connectors. Balanced Power Connector and Unbalanced Power Connector. I was initially trying to use those to create an equipment connection for all of the equipment I have to connect to my panelboards in the project. I was trying to customize these connections to contain the data for each piece of equipment (pump motors, air handling units, etc.): voltage, phase, KVA. I would then connect them to panelboard which created a circuit. But these don't seem to work that way. Someone pointed me to the use of junction boxes which seems to be what I really needed to use. I still don't know what these connectors do or how to use them at this point but I think my problem is solved by using the junction boxes.

Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

fabiosato — Fri, 16 Dec 2016 23:35:01 GMT

Hello,

We do exactly as you mentioned, especially because the loads are in linked files, in our case.

So, I have created junction boxes with all settings by instance, so we place the junction box close to the equipment and copy the load values to it.

Create a parameter for each of the electric connector parameters, so you can configure it as you need.

Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

gnagy — Tue, 12 Dec 2017 20:27:42 GMT

I would like to piggy back off of the original questions..I am a fairly new user of Revit so bear with me please.

I've started to understand how to use the Electrical Connector. What I am trying to do now is either remove/delete the "Apparent Load" parameter or replace/redefine that parameter with Full Load Amps. I am not sure if either option is even possible.

I would like you use Full Load Amps instead of the Apparent Load so I won't have to convert between VA and Amps.

If anybody has any ideas please let me know what my options are. Let me know if you need more clarification

Thanks,

Garrett

Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Dec 2017 20:39:26 GMT

Not possible. Those connector properties are hard-coded into Revit and can't be altered. The closest you can do is create shared parameters for V, A, VA, and Phase, then make the VA parameter equal to V * A * sqrtPhase. But, because Revit hates us, you cannot use parameters that will link with the phase property in the connector in formulas, so you have to create yet another parameter to fill in the equation.

Or just throw up your hands, continue doing that calc manually, and drink.

Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

gnagy — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 11:52:08 GMT

Thats what I was afraid of...ill drink to that though either way

Re: Using ELECTRICAL Connectors

fabiosato — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 19:58:20 GMT

Hello,

In Revit 2017 is possible to use number of poles type parameters in formulas.