topic Re: Insert Pipe Asseccory inside pipe in Revit MEP Forum

Insert Pipe Asseccory inside pipe

ReneBogersREBO — Thu, 23 May 2024 08:49:00 GMT

Hi all,

Is this possible?

I want to add a pipe accessory inside a pipe, with the correct flangs.

The accessory has DN size (150).

The pipe has ø160 size.

Is this possible what I want?

Just asking, before I spend some hours to something which doesn't work 😉

Re: Insert Pipe Asseccory inside pipe

iainsavage — Thu, 23 May 2024 11:51:46 GMT

There are a few ways.

The valve family should be set to part type of Valve - Breaks Into. It will insert into the pipe.

The flanges can also be pipe accessories set to Break Into (the standard flange families are usually designated as pipe fittings but you can save the family as a pipe accessory instead).

So you could individually place the valve and the flanges then nudge them close to one another with very short sections of pipe (like <5mm long) between each. Or you could delete the short bits of pipe between the valve and flanges and then drag them together so that they connect directly to one another.

A better method though might be to edit the valve family and insert the flanges (nesting) into the valve family. If you set them as Shared then they can still appear in schedules etc as individual items. Then when you insert the valve into the pipe the flanges will automatically be placed with it.

Your main problem is going to be the difference in diameters between the pipe and the accessories because Revit is going to insert reducers (tapers) to match. You probably therefore need to customise the connections on the flanges and/or the valve to match the commercially available product which would be used e.g. on plastic pipe you might have a 150mm nominal flange which has a 160mm fusion socket, so you would need to make the socket connector 160mm but the connector on the flange face 150mm.

Reply back if you need more help with this.

Re: Insert Pipe Asseccory inside pipe

ReneBogersREBO — Thu, 23 May 2024 12:28:02 GMT

Hi iainsavage,

Thank you for your extensive answer.

The valve family is valve-breaks into indeed, only question about it: what’s the difference between “Valve – Breaks Into” and “Breaks Into” at Part Type?

I already had a host family with the valve nested inside AND the flanges nested inside so I think I gonna stick to that, you also mentioned it like the better method. In this nested family each flange can made visible/not visible by yes/no, cause not always 2 flangs are needed. But when nog flange is needed, then I need the other size (150 instead of 160), cause connection to for example the mechanical equipment is a DN size.

Reason I was thinking about to change to separate valve and flanges was, cause they also used on their own, and with the extra nested family I have another extra family in project. The other reason was, revit has the opportunity to add flanges by routing preferences 😉

With the items mentioned above, I guess maybe it’s better to use ALWAYS pipe sizes (90, 110, 125, 160) instead of DN sizes (80, 100, 125, 150). What’s your opinion about this?

My preference is to use both, cause DN sizes come with a lot of ME/PIA and so.

Re: Insert Pipe Asseccory inside pipe

fabiosato — Thu, 23 May 2024 14:18:36 GMT

Hello,

Regarding the pipe sizes, we usually consider the nominal diameter instead of the external size.

So, DN 80 may correspond to pipe diameter 90.

Re: Insert Pipe Asseccory inside pipe

ReneBogersREBO — Thu, 23 May 2024 14:26:35 GMT

Don't quite understand what you are saying.

Do you mean to forget the DN(80) sizes and only use the round(90) sizes?

Re: Insert Pipe Asseccory inside pipe

iainsavage — Thu, 23 May 2024 17:19:55 GMT

@ReneBogersREBO wrote:
Hi iainsavage,

Thank you for your extensive answer.
The valve family is valve-breaks into indeed, only question about it: what’s the difference between “Valve – Breaks Into” and “Breaks Into” at Part Type?
I already had a host family with the valve nested inside AND the flanges nested inside so I think I gonna stick to that, you also mentioned it like the better method. In this nested family each flange can made visible/not visible by yes/no, cause not always 2 flangs are needed. But when nog flange is needed, then I need the other size (150 instead of 160), cause connection to for example the mechanical equipment is a DN size.
Reason I was thinking about to change to separate valve and flanges was, cause they also used on their own, and with the extra nested family I have another extra family in project. The other reason was, revit has the opportunity to add flanges by routing preferences 😉
With the items mentioned above, I guess maybe it’s better to use ALWAYS pipe sizes (90, 110, 125, 160) instead of DN sizes (80, 100, 125, 150). What’s your opinion about this?
My preference is to use both, cause DN sizes come with a lot of ME/PIA and so.

Part type: I've never really understood the difference myself and the official help doesn't really clarify it

Pipe size with one flange: The valve would normally be 150mm (6") since it is probably the same valve which is used on different types of pipes and manufacturers don't, in my experience, produce a 160mm valve. So its the flange family that you need to modify. You could I think use a formula based on the setting of the yes/no parameter so that if it is yes the connector diameter is 160mm, otherwise it is 150mm.

Nesting or separate families: either method is valid. The advantage of nesting is that when placing many instances of the valve its a one click process rather than each time placing a valve, flange 1, flange 2, possibly having to flip the flange family, then align them to each other to remove/minimise the bits of pipe between each of the three components. As I say if you set the nested families as Shared then in terms of quantities etc the valve and flanges will still be counted individually.

Flanges in routing preferences: Yes you can also do that and it might work okay in your case but I find that the automatically placed flanges can be a bit unreliable and sometimes appear or disappear without you having control over them. It is a valid method if it works reliably for you.

Nominal versus actual diameters: I can only speak for UK where it is normal to use nominal sizes for steel and iron pipes but use external diameter for copper and (most) plastic pipes.

Re: Insert Pipe Asseccory inside pipe

ReneBogersREBO — Fri, 24 May 2024 07:14:44 GMT

Thank you for your answer.

I stick with the nesting family, and also the sizes I make all 160 instead of 150/160. I think it will prevent a lot of problems.... only thing is that I need to add some project parameters inside the nested families and pass then through to the host family, so when in the host family a parameter (for scheduling or filtering) is filled, those are also filled with those values in the nested families.

Re: Insert Pipe Asseccory inside pipe

Sefanja_Verkaik — Fri, 24 May 2024 07:33:07 GMT

So I see there are a couple of questions breaking into eachother. First of all the size of the pipes is something you determine yourself. If you use a template you are ofcourse going to use those designated sizes, DN sizes are most commonly used, however nothing in revit stops you from using OD messurements.

Than in revit families you can connect any DN/OD size to eachother there is no limit there, just make sure you have the connecter sizes set to an instance DN/OD parameter. Than whatever is inbetween the 2 connectors can be any size.

For the 2 different OD sizes OD 160 with flange OD 150 without flange you can either set specific values for different pipe sizes, so no flange for OD 150 but flanges for OD 160 or set a simple if statement inside a visibility parameter formula. if(OD = 150 mm, 1 = 0, 1 = 1)

I hope this might help you forward a little bit.