topic Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes in Revit MEP Forum

Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

Chad.Richardson — Mon, 22 Apr 2019 16:44:54 GMT

I AM TRYING TO MAKE A PARAMETRIC FLANGE WITH BOLT HOLES FOR DUCTILE IRON. WE NEED TO ACCOUNT FOR BOLT SETS FOR EACH FLANGE. PREVIOUSLY WE HAVE JUST ACCOUNTED FOR PIPE AND FITTINGS BUT HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET A BOLT COUNT AND OR JUST BOLT SETS COUNTED FOR EACH SIZE PIPE AT EACH FLANGED CONNECTION. WE HAVE CREATED OR EDITED A FLANGE FOR DUCTILE IRON AND MADE A PARAMETRIC POLAR ARRAY WITH VOIDS TO CUT INTO THE FLANGES. THE BOLT HOLE SIZE, CENTERLINE WORK AND FLEX AND READ FROM A LOOKUP TABLE BUT WE CAN NOT GET THE ARRAY TO READ FROM A LOOKUP TABLE. WE KEEP GETTING INCONSISTENT UNITS WHEN TRYING TO PUT A FORMULA OR ERRORS ON OUR LOOKUP TABLE.

THE PARAMETER FOR THE ARRAY WITHIN THE FLANGE SEEMS TO BE AN INTEGER TYPE AND HAVE TRIED NUMEROUS METHODS TO GET IT TO WORK. OUR PROBLEM IS EITHER OUR LOOKUP TABLE WONT LOAD WHEN WE CHANGE THE HEADER FORMAT TO READ ANYTHING OTHER THAN "QBH##OTHER##NUMBER". QBH IS THE PARAMETER NAME FOR

THE NUMBER OF BOLT HOLES WITHIN THE ARRAY WHICH DOES FLEX CORRECTLY WHEN WE CHANGE THE NUMBER MANUALLY.

HOW SHOULD THIS PROPERLY BE DONE OR DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS. OUR GOAL WAS TO CUT VOIDS, MAKE AN ADDITIONAL FAMILY THAT WOULD SOMEHOW BE HOSTED TO THE FLANGES AND FLEX OR CHANGE ACCORDING TO SIZE. IT SEEMS THERE REALLY ISN'T A WHOLE LOT OF INFO ABOUT THIS OUT THERE EXCEPT SOME VIDEOS WE FOUND IN ANOTHER LANGUAGE.

Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

ToanDN — Mon, 22 Apr 2019 17:37:12 GMT

I am just changing your message case as a courtesy to other readers.

" I am trying to make a parametric flange with bolt holes for ductile iron. We need to account for bolt sets for each flange. Previously we have just accounted for pipe and fittings but have been trying to figure out how to get a bolt count and or just bolt sets counted for each size pipe at each flanged connection. We have created or edited a flange for ductile iron and made a parametric polar array with voids to cut into the flanges. The bolt hole size, centerline work and flex and read from a lookup table but we can not get the array to read from a lookup table. We keep getting inconsistent units when trying to put a formula or errors on our lookup table.

The parameter for the array within the flange seems to be an integer type and have tried numerous methods to get it to work. Our problem is either our lookup table wont load when we change the header format to read anything other than "QBH##OTHER##number". QBH is the parameter name for

The number of bolt holes within the array which does flex correctly when we change the number manually.

How should this properly be done or does anyone have any suggestions. Our goal was to cut voids, make an additional family that would somehow be hosted to the flanges and flex or change according to size. It seems there really isn't a whole lot of info about this out there except some videos we found in another language."

Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

Chad.Richardson — Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:01:09 GMT

Thank you! Bad Architecture habit.

Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

L.Maas — Thu, 25 Apr 2019 09:11:44 GMT

You will not find much information on this subject because it is considered not the "right" approach. Voids and arrays are typically things that will have a relative high impact on Revit performance. So people will try to avoid both of them when possible. You have to consider what would be the advantage of creating such detailed flanges in Revit.

Most people will use just a disc object to represent the flange. You could just add a (shared) parameter (e.g Qty_Bolts) in the flange family to be able to count/schedule the amount of bolts needed for your project.

Also have a look at THIS thread with a little bit more information on this subject and alternative routes.

Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

Chad.Richardson — Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:12:57 GMT

We have already considered adding the qty as a shared parameter. You are right about the detail not needing to be so high which is why we actually have a disk shaped gasket set and will probably stick with that but add a qty parameter to show qty on Bill of Materials if we wish to go that way. This will probably be the route we go even though we have been having problems using them. We would have nested this with a flange set but we cant account for 2 sets of gaskets at each connection which is actually in our case 1 1/8" gasket between each set of flanges, and since revit families have been made to split that distance to be 1/16" before the pipe connector at the ends it is tricky.

Let me know if i am wrong but we have considered the best option for now to use the following method. We made a union gasket family with multiple copies that have different descriptions for our Bill of Materials. This is because we need to know if we have a flange by flange connection or a flange by plug valve connection for example. After we route all our pipe and equipment we drop in gaskets between the flanges the best we can. We have been unable to find a method to have an instance of this gasket connect between each flange connection on its own unless maybe we have a third party plugin of some kind. (dynamo maybe)

We have also tried making a double flange family with the gasket but it gets messy when routing pipe to have more than one type of flange connection because of how they connect with fittings,valves, or equipment and require much more input when routing pipe to make sure the correct one is selected at each connection. We essentially along with many others im sure would like to route pipe and have the gaskets automatically be inserted between each connection like how it works in plant3d or fabrication.

Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

fabiosato — Sat, 04 May 2019 04:03:58 GMT

Hello,

Instead of creating the holes, you could create the bolt heads and nuts only on each side, if you really need their geometry, the holes won´t be visible if you have them.

Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

sagnewYUXLR — Tue, 20 Sep 2022 08:11:34 GMT

this is something we would really like to happen.

there are a few things using system families that just need tweaked slightly to make the process that bit easier.

Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

gary.cowan — Wed, 21 Sep 2022 09:45:32 GMT

you need something like this, which i have developed myself.

i have developed a fully parametric custom gasket family that has the bolts nested inside, depending on the diameter of pipe you pick the bolts align to the correct spacing and the bolts themselves are selectable as size and grade etc, all shared so they can be scheduled and counted globally.

Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

sagnewYUXLR — Wed, 21 Sep 2022 09:47:58 GMT

that's excellent how long did this take you to produce?

Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

gary.cowan — Wed, 21 Sep 2022 10:06:53 GMT

thank you very much!

about half a day was spent on the modelling, and a few hours prior scratching my head with doodles on paper.

there are a few families created for this to work.

first one was a custom butterfly valve with built in bolts as a proof of concept, based on a manufacturer we use pretty much always so the dims line up.

then i re-engineered this family to be a gasket joint with bolts.

then i re-engineered it to be a double joint for wafer items.

so now we have a family for almost every option, and all flange bolts report themselves onto a schedule for our prefab lads who love the families.

oh and it also looks amazing in AR/VR & Rendering see enscape shot below.

Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

sagnewYUXLR — Wed, 21 Sep 2022 12:23:09 GMT

how much to buy it off ye lol 🙂 those snaps are excellent

i have gasket family etc, but the bolts was something i was struggling with

Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

HVAC-Novice — Wed, 21 Sep 2022 12:34:15 GMT

I have nothing to contribute to resolve the problem..... but I would look into simplifying and not showing every single detail. There is no need to model to such extremes and it will cost time and model performance.

If you need to determine how many gaskets and bolts you need to order, you could schedule the fittings, and then have a calculated value that determines how many bolts (assuming number changes with size) and gaskets etc. I also would talk to whoever orders them since I'm sure if you buy a coupling, it comes complete with what is needed.

Simplify first, add sophistication second.

Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

sagnewYUXLR — Wed, 21 Sep 2022 12:36:08 GMT

in the world of pipe the bolt length can vary flange to valve, flange to fitting. having these as editable items is something that is needed. it's not really ideal to say show less detail

Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

gary.cowan — Wed, 21 Sep 2022 14:03:17 GMT

not great to make assumptions about stuff your not completely familiar with.............

this was invented from need, these bolts can vary wildly depending on system PN rating, size fluctuations, differences in flange thicknesses depending on the item between the flanges etc only to name a few. not at all easy to schedule and make "assumptions"

no real hit to performance, been using them in live jobs for a while now, massive MEP models with 300k elements, no issues.

all changes made during design cycle immediately captured. no time wasted doing manual take-offs over and over again.

Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

sagnewYUXLR — Wed, 21 Sep 2022 14:05:40 GMT

hear hear

Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

AMITJ6Q6B — Mon, 12 Dec 2022 13:27:37 GMT

@Chad.Richardson you can download the Rvtcad Revit flange family with Nut and Bolt with the link below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-yqqiQaT6k

This is a fully parametric family and the purpose for creating this Rvtcad flange family is to accurately match with point cloud data as its client requires.

i posted in another query for help you can request to create any type of Revit family for free from this website www.Rvtcad.com as they are specialized in Scan to BIM Revit and Point cloud to BIM modeling.

Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

m1468 — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 07:38:59 GMT

Hello! I am very interested in the bolt script you have developed.
Where can I buy it please?

Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

irri_sureste — Wed, 17 Jul 2024 03:17:55 GMT

Excelente modelado, muy profesional. Puedes compartir la familia de bridas con pernos por favor?...Saludos!

Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

gary.cowan — Thu, 18 Jul 2024 09:24:35 GMT

thank you very much i appreciate your feedback!!

the family is neither for sale, nor for download. its a simple family to construct using nested families and parametric extrusions etc, set to specific DN sizes per pipe size. Id respect anyone who could take these images as a concept and reverse engineer their own solution rather than just taking my work and taking the credit for it if you understand my position. id teach anyone how to do this its relatively simple, its understanding how to achieve it is the hard part.

Re: Parametric Flange With Bolt Holes

sagnewYUXLR — Thu, 18 Jul 2024 09:27:35 GMT

pity they not for sale..

we've moved back towards fabmep parts within revit now