topic Re: Mechanical Equipment Subcategories in Revit MEP Forum

Mechanical Equipment Subcategories

Anonymous — Wed, 27 May 2020 20:03:32 GMT

I have a project with multiple different brands of Rooftop units. I downloaded the different models from the various manufacturers, but now is time to start scheduling. How can I apply my scheduling parameters to every unit at once and make them into one schedule without affecting every other piece of mechanical equipment i,e fans, heaters. Is there ways to make subcategories of mechanical equipment to apply certain parameters too such as making a mechanical equipment subcategory of "Rooftop Unit" and apply the parameters to only that subcategory

Re: Mechanical Equipment Subcategories

iainsavage — Thu, 28 May 2020 07:00:11 GMT

There are no sub-categories for mechanical equipment.

You have to set the filter tab in the schedule properties dialogue to filter for only those items that you want in that schedule. E.g. filter by system, mark, typemark, manufacturer, etc, etc,.

You also have the option of using your own shared parameter as a filter.

You can include a parameter in the schedule fields, use that as your filter and then hide that field if you don’t want it to appear on your schedule.

Re: Mechanical Equipment Subcategories

RobDraw — Thu, 28 May 2020 13:11:25 GMT

@iainsavage wrote:
There are no sub-categories for mechanical equipment.

But they can be created. Not sure how useful they are in scheduling as I've not tested this workflow but it might be possible. It's just going to take a lot of work, since the families are already made.

Re: Mechanical Equipment Subcategories

scbunker — Thu, 28 May 2020 13:13:16 GMT

Object subcategories can only be assigned by editing the family. Open the family, select the object(s) of interest, and change the category in properties. If you need to create a new subcategory, you do that in Object Styles.

Unfortunately, there's not a quick way to add schedule parameters to a family without a 3rd party tool. CTC has such a tool called Parameter Jammer, but it's not free.

Re: Mechanical Equipment Subcategories

iainsavage — Thu, 28 May 2020 13:55:11 GMT

Every day is a schoolday as they say.

I thought you could only allocate subcategories to parts within a family to allow additional visibility control (different line thickness, colours etc) - I didn't realise that you could actually give the whole family a subcategory.

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2018/ENU/Revit-Customize/files/GUID-8A6525DA-93CD-43A5-AAEF-4FFD9CD9726F-htm.html

I tried this with a radiator family but can't see where you allocate the subcategory to the family and can't see how you access the parameter in the model or use it in schedules.

Could you explain further because this could be really useful if it works?

Re: Mechanical Equipment Subcategories

scbunker — Thu, 28 May 2020 14:11:08 GMT

For example, this is an object in a family:

Notice the subcategory in properties is set to None. So the object doesn't have a subcategory and it will be controlled only by the parent category (Lighting Fixtures, in this case).

You can create a new subcategory in Object Styles (from within the family editor).

That subcategory will then appear in the object's properties as an option:

And that object will be controlled by the subcategory within the project. But certain visibility settings of the parent category will still control all subcategories, such as halftone, detail level, and visible or not.

You can't control an object's subcategory via a parameter like you can an object's material. I wish you could - I can think of at least one application for such a function. Alas.

Re: Mechanical Equipment Subcategories

scbunker — Thu, 28 May 2020 14:14:47 GMT

I thought my last sentence above was a good enough idea to post:

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/allow-control-of-subcategories-via-a-parameter/idi-p/9546099

Re: Mechanical Equipment Subcategories

iainsavage — Thu, 28 May 2020 14:30:58 GMT

@scbunker wrote: And that object will be controlled by the subcategory within the project

I get the visibility aspects, but how would you use that to schedule mechanical equipment and only include certain items in the schedule based on the subcategory? Also, in the project model, the subcategory does not appear in the family's properties, either instance or type.

I'm genuinely interested to know how this can be used for scheduling purposes since I've always filtered by other parameters such as typemark, family name, comments etc or by a shared parameter.

Re: Mechanical Equipment Subcategories

scbunker — Thu, 28 May 2020 14:43:49 GMT

I misread the question. That's the second time I've done that today; I need to pay better attention.

@Anonymous said 'subcategories', but re-reading his question, I don't think he meant subcategories in Revit's technical sense of that word. @RobDraw made the same error.

In that case, @iainsavage's first answer is a good one. Add a parameter to the families (probably fastest/easiest for it to be a project parameter) and use that parameter to filter the schedules. That parameter will create 'subcategories' in the way @Anonymous is meaning, I think.

Re: Mechanical Equipment Subcategories

RobDraw — Thu, 28 May 2020 14:51:24 GMT

@scbunker wrote:
@Anonymous said 'subcategories', but re-reading his question, I don't think he meant subcategories in Revit's technical sense of that word. @RobDraw made the same error.

I don't think there was any error on anyone's part.

Re: Mechanical Equipment Subcategories

HVAC-Novice — Thu, 28 May 2020 16:44:32 GMT

You would use subcategories to control certain visibility. For example I created a subcategory for clearance spaces around equipment and only make those visible in M-views. but what you show would be the same for each manufacturer's equipment.

For scheduling you can use shared parameters. Each manufacturer makes their won type of family and parameters. i needed up just creating my own and add them to the families. Some of the hard-coded parameters (mode, URL, manufacturer) already exist and can be used for scheduling.

Quality and complexity of manufacturer families differs greatly. You have to create your own and can use their's as a starting point. Sometimes I make their shapes simpler to save resources (not sure why, some of the modelers seem to get carried away....no need to model every tiny useless detail that takes long to render for a chiller).

Re: Mechanical Equipment Subcategories

Anonymous — Thu, 28 May 2020 17:19:21 GMT

Yes I want a Project Parameter, but I want subcategories of mechanical equipment in which to apply those parameters to without applying them to every single piece of mechanical equipment.

For example, my Rooftop Units need a scheduling parameter of Outside Air CFM, but my Louvers do not need this parameter.

So how do I apply a Project Parameter to a user-created subcategory of Mechanical Equipment.

Or, how do i bulk load my desired shared parameters into a family at one time. Without having to go into a family and adding every single shared parameter one at a time to every piece of equipment

Re: Mechanical Equipment Subcategories

HVAC-Novice — Thu, 28 May 2020 17:52:23 GMT

Project parameters don't go into families. Shared parameters can be used in families AND schedules.

What you plan to do can be easily done, just not with sub categories.

One other issue you run into is you need different schedules for different mechanical equipment. I filter them out by indicating the "type comment" parameter as what they are. for example all boilers, are "boiler", all fans are "fan" etc. then the schedules can use that as a filter so the fan schedule doesn't boilers.

A shared "airflow" parameter in a family can show up in the schedule.

Hope this helps. Just don't insist on using sub-categories. those won't help for what I understand you want to do.

Re: Mechanical Equipment Subcategories

iainsavage — Thu, 28 May 2020 19:46:26 GMT

As said earlier adding shared parameters can be a lot of work and I find its not worth the effort unless you really need a customised parameter.

In schedules you can rename the display name of the parameter so a built-in parameter such as Type Comment could be retyped in the schedule column header as CATEGORY or whatever you want. So as others have said use built-in parameters as much as possible to save some effort.
If you really want to add shared parameters this thread on batch loading shared parameters might help:

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-mep-forum/adding-shared-parameters/m-p/9469105#M69539

You can also use a shared parameter as a project parameter and within the project parameters dialogue you can assign the types of families/systems that parameter can be associated with. This saves adding in to all of your families. Use a text parameter and then you can populate it with any text you like then use as the filter criteria in the schedule.
Hope this helps.

Re: Mechanical Equipment Subcategories

HVAC-Novice — Thu, 28 May 2020 20:13:25 GMT

I hide the "type comment" column in the schedule since it would be the same word for all items anyway and adds no value to the construction documents.

Worth or not, I guess depends on the case and what you want to achieve. i personally spend more effort upfront and then have automated work flows.