topic family parameter "tank's access chimney " in Revit Architecture Forum

family parameter "tank's access chimney "

REDO10 — Mon, 06 Dec 2021 16:31:12 GMT

Hi All,

I need your help to create my tank's access chimney which has the form in the picture below

I tried to create my family using a generic model nested in the geometry of my dome but I cannot create the intersection void between the chimney and the dome (REVIT sayed me: impossible to cut family1 occurrences from their host!!)

please check my attached family file bellow for any suggestion or correction

Have a nice day

Thanks.

Re: family parameter "tank's access chimney "

RDAOU — Mon, 06 Dec 2021 16:42:22 GMT

@REDO10

Do you really need a family for that?

Unless you have 10s or 100s of these chimneys, you can just use walls and attach their base...or use a simple extrusion and cut it with an in place model...

Re: family parameter "tank's access chimney "

REDO10 — Tue, 07 Dec 2021 08:25:23 GMT

@RDAOU

Yes I need to model a family that I can use for my different tank projects

Please take a look at my attached file ... I followed the steps that you indicated to me in my subject

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-architecture-forum/sump-shape-modeling-parameters-using-conceptual-mass-family/td-p/10302344 ... but the intersection void between the chimney and the dome does not want to be created !!

Notice that I use REVIT 2021 version

Thanks.

Re: family parameter "tank's access chimney "

ToanDN — Tue, 07 Dec 2021 16:53:55 GMT

Create the chimney family as a Architectural Column family, place it in project, and attach the Base to the roof.

Re: family parameter "tank's access chimney "

syman2000 — Tue, 07 Dec 2021 21:14:16 GMT

Looks like your opening void is set to an arc. Normally this will not work because Revit has tendency to break when you have arc solid shape so close to the surface. You want to add extra tolerance to allow the void cut. If the dome shape is 150mm in thickness, you want to make the void 151mm or more to get your cut.

Re: family parameter "tank's access chimney "

RDAOU — Tue, 07 Dec 2021 21:22:00 GMT

@REDO10

How did you the Tank Cover?

Re: family parameter "tank's access chimney "

REDO10 — Tue, 07 Dec 2021 21:49:24 GMT

@RDAOU

The tank cover is a geniric model with revolution (two half dome)

Thanks.

Re: family parameter "tank's access chimney "

RDAOU — Tue, 07 Dec 2021 22:57:59 GMT

@REDO10

Here is the simplest I can think of

Tank Cover (Generic Model)
1. Add a Dome Shaped Void below the cover
2. Check the option Cut with Void when loaded
The Chimney (Generic Model)
1. Add a Void inside Chimney walls
2. Can set it to adjustable height (Edit/check attached sample)
3. Check option Cut with Void when loaded

Load Both into model >> Place Cover >> Place Chimney and adjust height parameter

Use Cut Geometry >> Select Cover >> Then Select Chimney
Use Cut Geometry again >> Select Chimney >> then Select Cover
Use Join Geometry if needed

Re: family parameter "tank's access chimney "

REDO10 — Wed, 08 Dec 2021 15:27:58 GMT

@syman2000

indeed that escaped me !!
I corrected that and I increased the thickness of the void to have the desired cut

Thanks.

Re: family parameter "tank's access chimney "

REDO10 — Wed, 08 Dec 2021 15:37:17 GMT

@RDAOU

Thanks for your reply

your idea is simple and practical...sometimes I complicate my life!! 🙄
I have some questions:
1- It's necessary to model the cover with his nested void as a family? ...why dont do that directly in the project by a generic model then add a void bellow it..it's not work?
2- Why you have set an offset of 600mm from the reference plan in the chimney family C1? (it can be more or less??)

I tried to load directly your chimney C1 in my project but that not cut correctly? ...I've add dome shaped void below the cover as you have doing (see the picture bellow)

3- how can I fix the chimney directly in extremity of the cover using radius R (in your example the chimney can be placed in any point of plan)

Thanks.

Re: family parameter "tank's access chimney "

ToanDN — Wed, 08 Dec 2021 15:57:05 GMT

Here is how I would do it:

Model a dome mass
Roof by face
Model a column family with a void, cut with void when loaded
Place family on roof, attach it's base the roof
Cut geometry column and roof to create the hole

Re: family parameter "tank's access chimney "

ToanDN — Wed, 08 Dec 2021 16:33:55 GMT

Re: family parameter "tank's access chimney "

RDAOU — Wed, 08 Dec 2021 17:35:31 GMT

@REDO10 wrote:

1- It's necessary to model the cover with his nested void as a family? (RD) When I suggested that you model all in place, you said you want families 🙂 so why not have the cover as a family too? As previously stated you do not need families neither for the cover nor for the chimney ...why dont do that directly in the project by a generic model then add a void bellow it..it's not work? (RD) You can but in such case you will not use a void dome to cut chimney. You would use a Solid Dome below cover (with visibility parameter or subcategory to switch off) and u use Join / Switch Join order to cut chimney (attached a revised model with both methods)
2- Why you have set an offset of 600mm from the reference plan in the chimney family C1? (it can be more or less??) (RD) It is an instance parameter so it can be whatever you wish it to be
I tried to load directly your chimney C1 in my project but that not cut correctly? ...I've add dome shaped void below the cover as you have doing (see the picture bellow) (RD) as mentioned before...in such case you need to cut chimney with a solid using join geometry
3- how can I fix the chimney directly in extremity of the cover using radius R (in your example the chimney can be placed in any point of plan) (RD) Use Pythagoras. the radius is half the chord.

Thanks.

Re: family parameter "tank's access chimney "

ToanDN — Wed, 08 Dec 2021 18:08:49 GMT

@REDO10

Revit 2019 file is attached here (I cannot attach file in DM).

Re: family parameter "tank's access chimney "

RDAOU — Wed, 08 Dec 2021 18:17:36 GMT

@REDO10

And here is the all IN Place solution

Cover: Model in Place - Category Floor
Place Basic Walls and Attach base to Cover
Edit Cover and add Void extrusion to cut cover

Flexible >> pretty much quick and easy >> can have as much shapes as you need >> you gain access to all the Walls features >> Can be reinforced >> and works for your analytical model

Re: family parameter "tank's access chimney "

REDO10 — Thu, 09 Dec 2021 11:32:01 GMT

@RDAOU

Hi,

@RDAOU wrote:
why dont do that directly in the project by a generic model then add a void bellow it..it's not work? (RD) You can but in such case you will not use a void dome to cut chimney. You would use a Solid Dome below cover (with visibility parameter or subcategory to switch off) and u use Join / Switch Join order to cut chimney (attached a revised model with both methods)

I'm exploring your attached file but I cannot switch on display of the solid Dome under the cover (with yellow color)

I entered the visibility parameters (VV ) and and I set In place cut element button on under floors category but cannot see it??

how to solve that?

Thanks.

Re: family parameter "tank's access chimney "

RDAOU — Thu, 09 Dec 2021 11:51:57 GMT

@REDO10

You use the subcategory when you want to switch off in specific views...To switch on/off in all views there is a Visibility type parameter

Scroll in the Project Browser to Floors
Floor 2 >> double clock the family type >>> check the Visibility parameter on

Re: family parameter "tank's access chimney "

REDO10 — Fri, 10 Dec 2021 17:18:09 GMT

@RDAOU wrote:
@REDO10

And here is the all IN Place solution
Cover: Model in Place - Category Floor
Place Basic Walls and Attach base to Cover
Edit Cover and add Void extrusion to cut cover

yes I see that the IN Place method with attach to base option is the simplest and easiest, but I prefer to create a family which I will use later.