topic Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!? in Revit Architecture Forum

Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

mjdarch575 — Mon, 11 Apr 2022 21:12:22 GMT

Could you please advise how Autodesk feel it acceptable to cost my business 300% more money to render images on the cloud?? I am a small business (on my own). I have purchased Revit LT for a number of years and purchased Cloud Credits to have rendered images and panoramic VR on the Cloud. I would only use from time to time so say £120 for 100 credits would last me 3-4 months but the VR is crucial to what I provide my clients. You will appreciate that this costs £360 per year. You are now removing Cloud Credits for Flex tokens and are charging £1410 for a minimum 500 tokens that have a 12 month shelf life!! Fine if these work out better for using against other software products, maybe this makes sense? But why get rid of Cloud Credits for using the cloud render service?? Why not just keep both to maintain fairness to small and larger businesses alike!?

Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

felice.s — Wed, 13 Apr 2022 14:24:48 GMT

Thanks for your feedback, @mjdarch575. I understand your concern about the cost of the smallest Flex token pack. It’s true that using Flex only for occasional rendering makes it harder to recognize the full benefits of this offering (which includes consumption-based access to over 90 Autodesk products and services, and allows multiple users to access the tokens.) For users such as yourself, we are working on launching a smaller token pack that will greatly reduce the entry cost of Flex. Additionally, one nuance about our efforts to make Flex our sole consumption currency is the following: although the cost of a Flex token ($3.00 USD) is 3x the cost of a cloud credit ($1.00 USD), all Pay Per Result service rates (including Rendering) have been reduced by about 2/3rds and in some cases by more. This means that the net cost to you to render with Flex versus cloud credits will remain about the same or, in some cases, will result in a lower (or even free) consumption charge. Here are some examples to illustrate:

Net cost remains the same:

Before with cloud credits: a 6 MP standard render was 3 cloud credits ($3 USD)
Now with Flex: a 6MP standard render is 1 Flex token ($3 USD)

Net cost is lower:

Before with cloud credits: a 4 MP standard render was 2 cloud credits = $2 USD
Now with Flex: a 4MP standard render is free

Regards,
Felice

Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

mjdarch575 — Wed, 13 Apr 2022 14:33:32 GMT

Hi Felice

Thank you for your response. It's heading the direction that I would
certainly prefer but unlikely for it to happen in good time. I have work
stacking up that need VR renders but because I'm in the UK I cannot have
the option to purchase less than 500 Flex tokens.
I would like to purchase 100 for me to carry on as before but I don't know
when this will be available?

Regards

Martyn Davies

Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

EATREVITPOOPCAD — Wed, 13 Apr 2022 14:45:38 GMT

I have about $50 worth of cloud credits left in my account. does this mean that I currently have to pay $2 for the standard 4MP render, but once I run out of these cloud credits and purchase flex coins these standard 4MP renders become free?

Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

felice.s — Wed, 13 Apr 2022 20:26:33 GMT

Hi @EATREVITPOOPCAD , on March 29th, 2022, all Pay Per Result service rates were adjusted (downwards, by ~2/3 as previously mentioned) regardless of whether you are using Cloud Credits or Flex tokens. (We support both consumption currencies until your existing Cloud Credits expire.) Your standard 4MP render should now be free. FYI - here's the new Flex rate sheet. And you can read a bit more about how we calculate Rendering rates here. Hope that helps.

Felice

Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

EATREVITPOOPCAD — Thu, 05 May 2022 13:48:45 GMT

@felice.s Not to be nit-picking but I don't see anything that was previously paid that turned to free in the cloud rendering. The 1 MP standard render used to be free and still is. The next higher grade offered ios 2.25 MP which is 1 credit - same as before. Do not see an option for 4MP

Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

mjdarch575 — Thu, 05 May 2022 14:02:04 GMT

All I know is, one day I was set to continue purchasing of 100 Cloud
Credits at £120 (inc Vat) that generally last me 3-4 months. The next, I am
*forced* to purchase *500 Flex tokens* at a massive cost difference of*
£1410 *(in Vat). Also, I am unlikely to use 500 so the 12 month
'shelf-life' is an added frustration.
I had no option but to purchase the 500 tokens. Needed to develop client
VR's that they are excited for. It is totally wrong. Why the separation of
approach between the UK and the US?? US can purchase 100 tokens, UK *minimum
500*. tut tut Autodesk.....what's that about?

Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

EATREVITPOOPCAD — Thu, 05 May 2022 14:10:51 GMT

@mjdarch575 Thats messed up, completely with you on this one... I am purchasing 100 tokens for personal use of software at home actually... if 500 was the lowest available option, this would be off the table and I would just stay in the office a bit longer lol... Did you try using a VPN? Also I hear lots of good things about video game engine rendering softwares. (We are in progress of purchasing Lumion which is quite expensive... but its a one time payment and better + way faster results) You can also look into Enscape if Lumion is out of the price range. Heard lots of good things about it also just haven't used it... Their subscription is 70$ a month on a month to month basis, or 40$ a month if you sign up for a year

Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

mjdarch575 — Thu, 05 May 2022 14:21:04 GMT

Hi Yes I tried Lumion 6 a few years back. Unfortunately its not great with
Revit LT as it doesn't allow Plugins - so too then Enscape, etc. Again, one
man band, used to use the full version for clash detection on large
projects but things have changed (for the better). I also couldn't seem to
get Lumion to produce decent results - found the output too 'cartoon-like'
but that would be my lack of ability more likely. I like that they now
provide the VR panorama, the cost of this is comparable to the purchase of
the 500 Flex tbh, but I would only be able to export from Revit LT as an
.fbx file. It turns out to be way more time consuming without the plugin -
had to swap files out all the time when the slightest changes to the Revit
model were applied. Have to 'suck it up' for now, besides - I have a ****
load of Flex tokens now - lucky me eh!?

(Yes tried a VPN, didn't work - it has to apply to *your* account - they
know where I live !!)

Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

EATREVITPOOPCAD — Thu, 05 May 2022 16:45:30 GMT

I see... hopefully AutoDesk Casino will be rolled out soon and at least you will be able to gamble with your leftover coins

Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

choiha — Thu, 05 May 2022 18:19:14 GMT

@EATREVITPOOPCAD first of all, sorry for the inconvenience. Any disruptions are hard to accept. I totally understand that. However, one thing I can ensure you, the pricing for RaaS with Flex token has not increased at all. As @felice.s mentioned, either you can gain more value or the same value, depending on what configuration you need (MP size, quality, # frames, etc.)

For your comment about 4MP, I realized it is a wrong example given by me. You're totally right it's not listed in the MP options. However, I want to emphasize that if you use 2.25 MP with standard quality, it is a free job with Flex token. It used to cost 1 Cloud Credit. If it's 2.25MP with Final quality, it is also free with Flex Token. It used to cost 2 Cloud Credits.

Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

EATREVITPOOPCAD — Thu, 05 May 2022 19:06:15 GMT

Ah I see, that's actually really good news! (2.25 MP final quality) I didn't see the updated price because I am still using old cloud credits. It was my assumption that cloud credits prices would also update, why I came back to rant about it ‌‌ Thank you for clarifying.

Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

choiha — Thu, 05 May 2022 19:39:09 GMT

@EATREVITPOOPCAD thank you for your response! I understand. The example I gave was a bad one! Again, sorry for the confusion.

Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

tasosrozos — Thu, 21 Jul 2022 21:05:04 GMT

Dear Felice,

Three months later, the situation for small businesses like mine is still the same.

I actually now have to deliver a presentation to my client and I'm unable to provide images with the right quality.

When is it likely to provide more flexibility on the purchasing of 'flex' tokens?

Just to note I live and work in the UK where currently I'm forced to purchase 500tokens for £1400 which apart from being unnecessary, it is also financially unsustainable for a very small business like mine.

Looking forward to your response.

Regards

Tasos

Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

paul — Wed, 27 Jul 2022 02:50:07 GMT

Yep. Will add to this.
A minimum spend of 500 credits is lunacy. I barely used the 100 cloud credits I had in 12 months.
To be forced to spend that much on something that will be wasted is a complete rip off.

I'll just use the free service until Autodesk really force me to look elsewhere

Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

juancarlos_moreno — Mon, 15 May 2023 15:51:14 GMT

As of last week Friday, It seems like the quietly got rid of the old scheme of free under 4MP renderings

Final Quality / Large Size = 2 credits ($6 USD)

Final Quality / Medium Size = 1 Credit ($3 USD)

Standard Quality / Medium Size = Free

Can someone else confirm if this is the case?

Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

SallyDong2005 — Tue, 16 May 2023 03:24:06 GMT

Hi @ juancarlos.moreno,

As @choiha explained, Free 2.25MP final quality is only for Flex Token, not for cloud credits. Per your consumption rate, looks like your account was using cloud credits. Could you please share a screenshot of the cloud rendering dialog? I want to check the rendering settings and required token/credits.

Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

juancarlos_moreno — Tue, 16 May 2023 14:36:07 GMT

Hello Sally,

Just last week. This was free. No cloud credits. weren't they phased out in 2022?

Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

SallyDong2005 — Wed, 17 May 2023 01:27:07 GMT

Could you share your Autodesk ID so that we can check for you?

Re: Flex Credits really bad for small business - Why!?

juancarlos_moreno — Wed, 17 May 2023 21:18:56 GMT

Juancarlos.moreno@sisley.fr.

Thanks in advance!