topic Re: Nested Families & Family Selection Drop Down In Project in Revit Architecture Forum

Nested Families & Family Selection Drop Down In Project

Jessicas — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 18:30:02 GMT

So my workplace wants to try an use Revit to create a rough bill of materials from the start of the project.

I've been creating families for the different pieces and nesting them into main families like, bath tubs, showers, toilets, sink, appliances and so on.

The parts are all shared so that they show up in schedules so that a total amount of "X" parts is seen.

A co-worker wasnt to thrilled when they loaded in a family i'd been working on and all the nested families appeared in the family/component drop down menu in the project. (I had accidentially not resaved one family into a new location before i made changes so they weren't supposed to see what was going on yet.)

My question is... Is there a way to make it so that the families nested into the main family don't show up in the family selection drop down once your in the project?

I've attached a photo of the section I'm talking about in case i haven't been very clear. The components like the GFI Cover, gas valve and breaker pack are all pieces that have been loaded into a main family. Is there a way to make it so that only the main family appears here and not all the little pieces that have been loaded into the more complex families?

Re: Nested Families & Family Selection Drop Down In Project

artejon — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 19:06:42 GMT

'My question is... Is there a way to make it so that the families nested into the main family don't show up in the family selection drop down once your in the project?'

Make them not shared.

Re: Nested Families & Family Selection Drop Down In Project

barthbradley — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 19:09:16 GMT

...or leave the family shared and, instead, change the shared family category to a different category than the host category.

Re: Nested Families & Family Selection Drop Down In Project

Jessicas — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 19:09:37 GMT

Make them not shared.

They need to be shared though so they show up in a schedule right?

Re: Nested Families & Family Selection Drop Down In Project

barthbradley — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 19:10:52 GMT

yes

Re: Nested Families & Family Selection Drop Down In Project

ToanDN — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 21:19:31 GMT

In case you don't want to change the nested families to different categories, add some silly prefix like 'zzz' to their name so they drop to the bottom of the list: zzzTOILET, zzzFAUCET, etc...

Re: Nested Families & Family Selection Drop Down In Project

chrisplyler — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 22:02:23 GMT

You've got a glass shower door selected, right?

It is my experience that the Family/Type Selector drop-down only shows items of the same category. For example:

I've made some cabinetry families that have nested and shared plumbing fixtures and electrical devices in them. I can place such a cabinet family into a model, select it, and only other cabinet category families/types show up there. That's because the nested lavatory is in the Plumbing Fixture category, and the nested receptacle is in the Electrical Device category. Neither of them are designated as belonging to the Cabinetry category, so they don't show up in the drop-down when I've got a cabinet selected.

You've got a lot of things that should be in distinct, separate categories all showing up in the drop-down at the same time, which leads me to believe you have created piping accessories, mechanical equipment, electrical devices and shower doors all as the same category.

Re: Nested Families & Family Selection Drop Down In Project

barthbradley — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 22:28:57 GMT

The way we do it is like this: say we have a Window Host Family with several shared component nested into it. We categorize the nested components as Generic Models - and in some cases as Specialty Equipment or Nurse Call Devices (yes, seriously, and for good reason) - and name them with the prefix extension: "Window_" (e.g. "Window_****_****_****"). All of the shared components will now now land in the Project Browser, group by their Category and by their prefix extension so they are quickly and easily identified and filtered as components belonging to windows. If it's a Door , then the nested, shared components are prefixed with the extension"Door_"; and so on and so forth.

...this makes it a heck of a lot easier to identify them in a views's V/G dialog as well!

Re: Nested Families & Family Selection Drop Down In Project

barthbradley — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:01:09 GMT

chrisplyler wrote: which leads me to believe you have created piping accessories, mechanical equipment, electrical devices and shower doors all as the same category.

I believe it's more of an organizational nightmare to categorize nested components to the category of their host. Your case in point typifies why. When I'm placing a window family, for instance, I don't want my available options to chose from, to include all the individual window shared components in the project. If all my window components were categorized as window families, then they would all show in the drop-down as well. Since it's unlikely that I'm ever going to place the component in the project by itself, why not place it "out-of-reach" so to speak, by categorizing it as something else? But, do have a naming convention to ID it, such as the prefix I suggested.

TIP:..and do make it a PREFIX, not a SUFFIX extension. Why? Because the default width of the components name field does not always fit the whole name; just the first part of it.

Re: Nested Families & Family Selection Drop Down In Project

ToanDN — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 22:57:41 GMT

Yup. I normally put nested components in Generic Model category because they are. A piece of extruded steel is just a generic piece, it can be used for windows, for doors, or anything else.

Re: Nested Families & Family Selection Drop Down In Project

barthbradley — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:19:37 GMT

We take it a step further. If we have a "piece of extruded steel", like your talking about, and that "piece of extruded steel" is used in other families, we just copy and rename it with the appropriate prefix (e.g. Window_piece of extruded steel), and now it can be identified in the Project as belonging to a window. If that same exact piece is used in a Door, then we make a copy of it and rename it with the prefix "Door_". In the end, there may be several of these component that are exactly the same in the project; each only differentiated by their Prefix. Who cares? It's a heck of a lot easier to manage them over the long haul.

Re: Nested Families & Family Selection Drop Down In Project

Alfredo_Medina — Thu, 16 Mar 2017 05:52:37 GMT

Do not worry about this. If the families need to be shared, and scheduled, they will be visible. Period. Someone in your office doesn't like that? Don't worry about that.

Re: Nested Families & Family Selection Drop Down In Project

FGPerraudin — Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:56:36 GMT

Agreed,

A shared family is loaded into your project even if nested, and this is why it can be scheduled.

So it HAS TO appear in the navigator.

Name tricks -adding a "00" or "zzz" prefix- work for re-organizing them are pretty harmless

But with changing the category of the nested element, be careful of the consequences in the schedules (name / or scheduling the right category!)

"fake" categories are as well very bad for BIM compliance ...

François

Re: Nested Families & Family Selection Drop Down In Project

chrisplyler — Thu, 16 Mar 2017 12:37:37 GMT

I usually find myself wishing there was a separate category for Door Hardware instead of having it all lumped in with Doors.

Re: Nested Families & Family Selection Drop Down In Project

Jessicas — Thu, 16 Mar 2017 12:47:20 GMT

Thanks Everyone. I was pretty sure there wasnt really a way around it but I offered to check and see what could be done. So I might add the 'zzz' prefix to all the nested families we dont need to see all the time.

I know a few of you pointed out that it looks like all the different parts are lumped into singular categories. I've only worked with the electrical and plumbing families so far adding wire nuts, breakers, wires, plumbing fittings and so on. So there are very few categories connected with electrical and plumbing.

The shower door is a bit of a special circumstance. Normally yes it would be under the door category but for scheduling purposes it needs to be a plumbing fixture so that the part number shows up in the right category.

Thanks for all your input.

Re: Nested Families & Family Selection Drop Down In Project

barthbradley — Thu, 16 Mar 2017 16:33:26 GMT

François,

Thanks for contributing to this discussion and sharing your BIM Management perspectives.

I’m curious to know what you mean by “’fake’ categories are as well very bad for BIM compliance.”

What are “fake” categories? And, what “BIM compliance” standards are you referring to exactly?

I’m also curious to know why a naming convention, such as adding a prefix, would be characterized by you as a “name trick” and “pretty harmless”. This statement seems to dismiss the usefulness of such intuitive identifiers, and imply that they could even be harmful to some small degree.

Could you elaborate on your comments? I’m very interested.

Thank you,

Barth

Re: Nested Families & Family Selection Drop Down In Project

chrisplyler — Fri, 17 Mar 2017 13:48:08 GMT

I put shower doors, stall partitions, hand dryers, ADA grab bars, soap dispensers, etc. into the Specialty Equipment category. I'm going to make one schedule for all that stuff, because it all comes from one supplier, at least on my jobs. It isn't coming from the door guy, and it isn't coming from the plumbing fixture guy either.

Shower doors aren't scheduled as Doors, just like all your cabinetry doors aren't scheduled as Doors. They also aren't scheduled as Plumbing Fixtures, just like windows aren't scheduled as Plumbing Fixtures.

Maybe in residential construction, the plumber puts in the shower door too? Otherwise I don't get your logic.

Re: Nested Families & Family Selection Drop Down In Project

Jessicas — Fri, 17 Mar 2017 13:54:05 GMT

I personally think the shower door should go with the other interior doors but the higher ups want all our internal part numbers to show up in a schedule together. and apparently since the glass door goes with the shower its part of the plumbing. In general is it correct... no. but i guess thats why every business does things differently.

Right now it shows up in the schedule that its wanted in so on our part thats what matters. I've only just started this project so its guaranteed to have a million changes yet so who knows maybe it will move back into the door section...but i didnt come here to discuss what category a particular building piece falls under. I just want to know if there's a way to stop shared nested families from appearing in the component selection drop down menu.

Re: Nested Families

ToanDN — Fri, 17 Mar 2017 14:15:21 GMT

Your higher ups are correct. Shower doors should not be under the same
category with Interior doors. You don't want a Door sub to take a schedule
including shower doors to a door manufacturer and have them to make custom
24x72 glass doors.

Whether they should be under Plumbing or Specialty Equipment can be
debatable. If you think about it, Kohler make shower stalls with shower
doors; Bobrick don't, but they make Toilet partition doors.

Re: Nested Families

chrisplyler — Fri, 17 Mar 2017 14:28:16 GMT

Sure, if you're specifying a shower STALL that comes from your plumbing fixture supplier and happens to have a door included, then you don't need to schedule to door individually at all anyway. The stall should be scheduled as a plumbing fixture.

If you're specifying a separately manufactured item, or a built-in-place subcontractor item, then go with Specialty Equipment.

As an aside... I wish Revit was setup with options to define categories that more closely followed some of the CSI formats.