topic Re: Taming existing walls in a refurb project in Revit Architecture Forum

Taming existing walls in a refurb project

nathaniel.mcmahon — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 15:09:53 GMT

Finding a method to work with refurb projects difficult

I'd appreciate any workflow ideas from people that have had the same issues

Case:

Working with a surveyors model constructed of architectural walls that run one direction and have a thickness etc.

Surveyed walls placed in an Existing phase.

Surveyed walls are solid and won't have layers demolished, no need for two walls.

New walls in a New phase.

Problem:

New walls change lengths of existing walls depending on locations and joins proximity to new walls. Survey data changes. No way to fix existing survey so it remains unaffected but other elements.

Possible solutions:

Have survey in linked model (Therefore no changes will occur, but demolitions won't appear in schedule or phases?)

Model existing solid walls as model in place elements. Don't see why no other than file size.

Re: Taming existing walls in a refurb project

martijn_pater — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 21:38:09 GMT

Your question above is a little difficult to read when you type it like that in telegram-style... Could you elaborate with some images?

Re: Taming existing walls in a refurb project

RDAOU — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:14:53 GMT

@nathaniel.mcmahon wrote:
Finding a method to work with refurb projects difficult
I'd appreciate any workflow ideas from people that have had the same issues

Case:
Working with a surveyors model constructed of architectural walls that run one direction and have a thickness etc.
Surveyed walls placed in an Existing phase.
Surveyed walls are solid and won't have layers demolished, no need for two walls. (this contradicts your below statement "Possible solution #1 where you mention demolition!!!")
New walls in a New phase.

Problem:
New walls change lengths of existing walls depending on locations and joins proximity to new walls. Survey data changes. No way to fix existing survey so it remains unaffected but other elements. Existing should remain as is...the extension to the existing is NEW … Clean Joint's isn't recommendable - Wall Joints should be Called out and detailed separately; that's how it should be in refurbishment/renovation

Possible solutions:
Have survey in linked model (Therefore no changes will occur, but demolitions won't appear in schedule or phases?) Above you stated there will be no demolition! If there is demo - In the Host Revit Model you can replicate only the wall which will be demolished entirely/partially...set the phase created of the replica to Existing and demolition should be carried out in the New Construction...(work with 2 phases only Existing and New Construction - this way your demolition plans and schedules will work as expected)
Model existing solid walls as model in place elements. Don't see why no other than file size. (as mentioned above, you only need to replicate the existing walls where demolition work applies. You shouldn't need to remodel all the existing elements. No point in doing so unless the Client is requesting to validate and quantify the existing)

Re: Taming existing walls in a refurb project

ToanDN — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:47:53 GMT

@nathaniel.mcmahon wrote:

Finding a method to work with refurb projects difficult

I'd appreciate any workflow ideas from people that have had the same issues

Case:

Working with a surveyors model constructed of architectural walls that run one direction and have a thickness etc.

Surveyed walls placed in an Existing phase.

Surveyed walls are solid and won't have layers demolished, no need for two walls.

New walls in a New phase.

Problem:

New walls change lengths of existing walls depending on locations and joins proximity to new walls. Survey data changes. No way to fix existing survey so it remains unaffected but other elements.

Possible solutions:

Have survey in linked model (Therefore no changes will occur, but demolitions won't appear in schedule or phases?)

Model existing solid walls as model in place elements. Don't see why no other than file size.

Disallow Join where new walls meeting existing walls.

Re: Taming existing walls in a refurb project

nathaniel.mcmahon — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 17:25:03 GMT

Disallow join does not stop the surveyed existing wall from being manipulated move irrecoverably by new walls nearby.

Re: Taming existing walls in a refurb project

nathaniel.mcmahon — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 17:38:03 GMT

Hi, thanks for the reply.

"Surveyed walls are solid and won't have layers demolished"

I'm referring to layers being demolished not entire walls. So I won't be building a wall up from two walls joined and demolishing one outer wall...

"Existing should remain as is They don't the move all over the place even when locked and in a separate phase ...the extension to the existing is NEW … Clean Joint's isn't recommendable - Wall Joints should be Called out and detailed separately; that's how it should be in refurbishment/renovation" Sure i'm not concerned with details, just my surveyed walls changing when new walls placed nearby.

Above you stated there will be no demolition! If there is demo - In the Host Revit Model you can replicate only the wall which will be demolished entirely/partially...set the phase created of the replica to Existing and demolition should be carried out in the New Construction...(work with 2 phases only Existing and New Construction - this way your demolition plans and schedules will work as expected) Interesting and seems viable but won't the replicated wall inherit the same original problems of shifting and moving.

I wish you could just make walls dumb at some point.

Re: Taming existing walls in a refurb project

ToanDN — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 17:46:01 GMT

@nathaniel.mcmahon wrote:

Disallow join does not stop the surveyed existing wall from being manipulated move irrecoverably by new walls nearby.

How would a new wall manipulate an existing wall when they are not allowed to join? Can you give me an example?

Regardless, if you want to keep the existing model in a link, you can. When schedule in the main model, just tick Include Elements in Links then the linked existing elements will show in the schedule. remember to map the phases properly between the host and the link.

Re: Taming existing walls in a refurb project

nathaniel.mcmahon — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 10:12:43 GMT

You can't have walls near each other without them interacting / pulling at each other changing them. Nothing to do with joining as far as i can see. I've attached a file. If you try and make the new walls line up or turn next to the existing the existing wall will change and join the new. Even when disallowed the selected the geometry has changed and it's game over for the survey.

Re: Taming existing walls in a refurb project

RDAOU — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 10:29:59 GMT

@nathaniel.mcmahon

It is all behaving as expected … I can lineup, intersect new and existing without them joining or the existing walls changing / moving

Maybe you can take a screenshot and markup where you are having problems?

Re: Taming existing walls in a refurb project

nathaniel.mcmahon — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 10:57:41 GMT

Thanks, you're right. A bit more careful investigation and one of the walls was still joined which meant it interacted with other walls. Must be more careful when operating. Still a bit risky but can be mitigated.