topic Re: Revit 2021 Survey point in Revit Architecture Forum

Revit 2021 Survey point

slocusBTDXV — Tue, 27 Oct 2020 17:07:44 GMT

Do you know how to change the origin point coordinates with Revit 2021?

With Revit 2019, the origin point coordinates can be changed with the change of the coordinates clipped base point project in fill in the N/S, E/W, Elev. and angle fields.

With Revit 2021, the paper clip works with the survey point and not with the base point.

It is possible to move “physically” the unclipped survey point but it isn’t so easy to fill in the fields of the coordinates of the clipped base point like it was possible before.

Thanks for your help

Re: Revit 2021 Survey point

barthbradley — Tue, 27 Oct 2020 17:17:08 GMT

I'm not clear what you are asking, but the position of Internal Origin could never be changed. It's position has always been fixed.

Re: Revit 2021 Survey point

_Vijay — Tue, 27 Oct 2020 17:18:01 GMT

yes, the same way you can move or you can entre the value.

Re: Revit 2021 Survey point

Lance.Coffey — Tue, 27 Oct 2020 20:40:38 GMT

Thank you for the question @slocusBTDXV !

The option to unclip the Project Base Point was removed in the Revit 2020.2 update: The clip icon on project base point is not displayed in Revit 2020.2 version

Note: As @barthbradley mentioned, you were never able to move the internal origin of the project, what moving the Project Base Point unclipped did was move the Project Base Point icon away from the project’s internal origin.

Re: Revit 2021 Survey point

ToanDN — Tue, 27 Oct 2020 20:53:29 GMT

For a better understanding:

- In pre-2020 version: when a PBP is clipped its location is constrained to the invisible Internal Origin. When you move a clipped PBP, you do not move it at all, but actually move the SP the opposite direction.

- In 2020/2021: PBP is not clipped to the Internal Origin (now visible), moving it actually moves it, equal to moving an unclipped PBP in earlier version.

With that said, entering the coordinates directly to the PBP in 2020/2021 version works the same as doing so to unclipped PBP in any earlier version.

Re: Revit 2021 Survey point

slocusBTDXV — Wed, 28 Oct 2020 15:27:36 GMT

The question is:
With Revit 2017.2.3/2018.3/2019.2, I can change the clipped project base point coordinates. How can I do the same with Revit 2020.2/2021?
See explanations below:
Comments:

* Revit version used: Revit 2019.2
* I use a Revit linked file to show the origin of the file.
* In France, we use the Lambert coordinate system (see here)
Example:
In this case, the circle center point coordinates in the site plane dwg file correspond to the future axis intersection point coordinates of the building in the Revit file.
The circle center point coordinates are: X:1579300, Y:2261500
[cid:image001.png@01D6AD47.1BBCA740][cid:image002.jpg@01D6AD47.1BBCA740]
Figure 1: put the building on the good place with coordinates on the site plan
In Revit 2017.2.3/2018.3/2019.2, I fill in the fields of the clipped project base point coordinates (see figure 3 below) with the circle center point coordinates that was drawn before in the site plane dwg file (see figure 1 above):
X:1579300 => E/W: 1579300 (E/O in French)
Y:2261500 => N/S: 2261500
[Une image contenant texte Description g?n?r?e automatiquement]
Figure 2: Origin point at the same place of the project base point before the change of coordinates
[Une image contenant texte Description g?n?r?e automatiquement]
Figure 3: building project base point coordinates fill in with the site plan coordinates (origin point and project base point always have the same coordinates because clipped)
To check if it works, I linked the dwg site plane file into the Revit file (see images 4 and 5 below)
[Une image contenant texte Description g?n?r?e automatiquement]
Figure 4: link the dwg file in the Revit file
[cid:image006.jpg@01D6AD47.1BBCA740]
Figure 5: Revit file with the clipped project base point coordinates which correspond to the origin coordinates
It is an easy way to get the coordinates of the origin point.
But now, with Revit 2020.2/2021, I do not know how to do the same stuff.
The only possibility I imagine with Revit 2020.2/2021 is to "physically" move the clipped survey point, but that is not practical.
With Revit, moving an element several million meters is a fairly complex task.
Link to files used: https://we.tl/t-foVVmeMVOR
Best regards
Samuel Locus
BIM Manager
slocus@viguier.com
+ 33 6 37 50 30 29

[VIGUIER]

VIGUIER architecture urbanisme paysage
16 rue du Champ de l'Alouette
75013 Paris, France
+33 1 44 08 62 00
www.viguier.com
[facebook][twitter] [instagram][linkedin]

Re: Revit 2021 Survey point

barthbradley — Wed, 28 Oct 2020 15:34:51 GMT

Maybe this will help you wrap your brain around it.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pfacs.downloads/Conferences/Aubin_HAND_2015_RTC_Shared_Coordinates.pdf#:~:text=The%20Revit%20Theory%20of%20Relativity%3A%20Understanding%20Shared%20Coordinates,Revit%27s%20way%20of%20handling%20coordinate%20systems%20is%20unique.

Re: Revit 2021 Survey point

slocusBTDXV — Wed, 28 Oct 2020 15:56:35 GMT

Thank you very much.

Best regards

Samuel Locus
BIM Manager
slocus@viguier.com
+ 33 6 37 50 30 29

[VIGUIER]

VIGUIER architecture urbanisme paysage
16 rue du Champ de l'Alouette
75013 Paris, France
+33 1 44 08 62 00
www.viguier.com
[facebook][twitter] [instagram][linkedin]

Re: Revit 2021 Survey point

Lance.Coffey — Wed, 28 Oct 2020 15:58:06 GMT

Have you tried using these steps from the article I posted?

---------------------------------------------------

To move the Project Base Point in the same way as previously was possible in the "clipped" state:

Go to Manage tab.
Expand Position from Project Location.
Use Relocate Project.

---------------------------------------------------

Re: Revit 2021 Survey point

barthbradley — Wed, 28 Oct 2020 17:35:41 GMT

@slocusBTDXV wrote:

The only possibility I imagine with Revit 2020.2/2021 is to "physically" move the clipped survey point, but that is not practical.
With Revit, moving an element several million meters is a fairly complex task.

Specify Coordinates at Point:

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2018/ENU/Revit-Model/files/GUID-89298C90-FD56-4DA2-9DA2-84D29BA8A21E-htm.html

Re: Revit 2021 Survey point

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:44:53 GMT

Hello Samuel,

I'm a french beginner with Revit.
And i do not understand how to manage survey point / project point ...
There is some discrepancy with autodesk explanation.

1-Model geometry must be positioned within a 16 kilometer (10 mile) radius from the internal origin. Exceeding this distance may reduce reliability and result in undesirable graphic behavior.

2- Project point as to be located on site location

3- In france as you said, we used the Lambert coordinate system (with your exemple X:1579300, Y:2261500), that mean that the survey point (or project point note sure) wich is used to located the site with reference to the world is

fare away from the limit of 16km of point 1

I do not understand

And if i do not take into acount this limit of 16km, i have some graphical bugs on the links files (i do not have this bug if i link files with point close to 0 origin)

Re: Revit 2021 Survey point

barthbradley — Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:54:08 GMT

You are talking two different things here. I think it would help you immensely to read the PDF I posted in Message #7.

Re: Revit 2021 Survey point

slocusBTDXV — Fri, 30 Oct 2020 12:11:20 GMT

Hello Pascal,
I have only hovered over the PDF file that was posted in Message #7 and cannot comment on its content at this time.
What I understood from my experience:
a. There are 3 types of points in Revit:
The origin point which is the most fundamental (visible in Revit since version(s) 2021 (and 2020.2?)).
It is which defines the distance of 10 miles beyond which Revit poses problems as well as the fundamental Cartesian space of Revit and therefore the Project North.
The Survey Point
The Project Base Point
The Survey Point and the Project Base Point work together to determine the shared coordinates of a project. They operate relative to the Cartesian fundamental space of Revit.
b. No physical element in the Revit sense can be located more than 10 miles from the point of origin.
c. The Project Base Point has a physical existence in the Revit sense and therefore cannot be located more than 10 miles from the origin point.
In a Lambert coordinate system, the best way to respect this when setting up a project is to move the Project Base Point with the origin point. This requires moving the clipped Project Base Point to make sure it is fixed to the origin point and the two move together. Since this option has been removed and not replaced by another more efficient for some reason since Revit 2020.2 and 2021, the only way to do it now is to use the "Specify Coordinates at Point" function of the “Manage” tab of the “Project Location” function group which by “chance” gives the same result. You must be careful in its use to be sure of the chosen object (the Project Base Point in this case).
d. The Survey Point does not have a physical existence in the Revit sense (it is probably the only element in Revit that has this characteristic since Revit 2017.2), it may be located more than 10 miles from the origin point. If ever there was a problem despite everything, just unclip the topography point (option still available for the moment, let's take advantage of it) to change its coordinates located in 0,0,0 for coordinates located within a radius of less 10 miles from the point of origin, for example in my case: X: 1579000, Y: 2261000.
The coordinates of the base point of my project are relative coordinates to the survey point, they can be huge because the survey point does not have a physical existence in the Revit sense. The coordinates of my Project Base Point relative to those of my origin point in Revit's fundamental Cartesian coordinate system are the same and are zero because the two points moved together and their values were zero before the move (this may be checked by selecting the unclipped Project Base Point with the option “Move to Internal Origin” before and after the move).
Hoping to have answered the question.
Link to the French version of the text: https://we.tl/t-xwwTx6R58f
Note: Quick English translation from Google
Samuel Locus