topic Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible? in Revit Architecture Forum

Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

Prvoime — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 19:06:01 GMT

Am I correct in thinking that vertical offset for wall foundation is impossible, and when I have a case like attached example, I'll just have to draw my foundations as regular walls? Which sucks because they're not connected.

Thanks in advance!

Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

barthbradley — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 19:26:10 GMT

Foundation Thickness not working for you?

...or are you talking Eccentricity?

Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

ToanDN — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 20:06:09 GMT

Changing the Wall base offset doesn't work?

Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

Alfredo_Medina — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 20:38:21 GMT

Usually the soil carries the slab-on grade, isolated from the footings for the exterior wall. But if the detail is different, as you show, maybe you can model that footing as a slab edge, instead of a strip footing.

Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

barthbradley — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 20:49:05 GMT

Looks like what he has already. If so, using Join Geometry (in the correct order) will fix 'er right up.

Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

Prvoime — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 22:06:16 GMT

@barthbradley wrote:
Foundation Thickness not working for you?
...or are you talking Eccentricity?

Nope, neither of those. Thickness is fine, that detail that I attached is what I need the finished result to look like. Basically I want a "Top offset" for foundation, the same way walls have them. So I can offset it down for the thickness of the floor slab. As far as I can tell, can't be done, just wanted to check.

Join geometry trickery won't work because that would mean I'd have to extend the walls all the way through the floor slab, and that would result in incorrect material quantity , either for the walls or for the slab. And then you have to fix every single section, and you end up with wrong line thickness, and you have to fiddle with linework to get it right... It's a mess.

Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

Prvoime — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 22:07:55 GMT

@ToanDN wrote:
Changing the Wall base offset doesn't work?

No, the detail that I attached is how it's supposed to look.

Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

Prvoime — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 22:10:52 GMT

@Alfredo_Medina wrote:
Usually the soil carries the slab-on grade, isolated from the footings for the exterior wall. But if the detail is different, as you show,

The detail I attached is how it's often done in my country.

maybe you can model that footing as a slab edge, instead of a strip footing.

Maybe, maybe for outer walls, but the same thing applies for interior ones. So it wouldn't work, or it would be much more work than to draw them as regular walls.

Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

RDAOU — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 22:52:54 GMT

@Prvoime

Why would you want to give the foundation the offset? Give the wall a negative base offset and the wall foundation should offset downwards with the wall and/or vise versa upwards...See GIF below. isn't this the detail you want?

Offset Wall Foundation from level

Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

barthbradley — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 23:08:04 GMT

@Prvoime wrote:

Join geometry trickery won't work because that would mean I'd have to extend the walls all the way through the floor slab, and that would result in incorrect material quantity , either for the walls or for the slab.

Not true. Join Geometry removes geometry at the union.

So, lower the Wall and join the Floor to it.

Or not.

Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

Prvoime — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 23:27:34 GMT

@RDAOU wrote:
isn't this the detail you want?

That's exactly what I want! But to do it without the "joining" command, the worst half baked command that Revit has to offer. Well, one of them.

Not a problem with two walls, not so convenient when dozens of walls have to be joined, if you want to have proper material quantities.

Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

Prvoime — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 23:30:55 GMT

@barthbradley wrote:
Not true. Join Geometry removes geometry at the union.

I know, for that one wall, at that one section. The rest of the walls/slab remain in an unjoined overlapped limbo. Or, create dozens of sections and tediously join every single wall...

Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

barthbradley — Sat, 24 Jul 2021 00:00:22 GMT

@Prvoime wrote:

Or, create dozens of sections and tediously join every single wall...

Huh? You don't need to create a Section View to Join Geometry.

Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

Prvoime — Sat, 24 Jul 2021 07:12:30 GMT

@barthbradley wrote:

Huh? You don't need to create a Section View to Join Geometry.

I know, but you still have to manually join every single wall, floor and beam, if you want correct quantities, and automatically corect sections. Again, on smaller buildings, doable, on anything larger, impossible.

Columns have to cut through everything, beams through everything except columns, walls through finish floors but not structural floors, structural floors only through walls... I'm talking cast in place concrete/reinforced concrete and clay blockwork buildings (90% of buildings in my country). A nightmare.

Why Revit doesn't have by type assignable priorities for elements, the same way it has them for wall layers, so that everything cleans up and calculates correctly is beyond me.

Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

RDAOU — Sat, 24 Jul 2021 08:15:34 GMT

@Prvoime

This topic started of with "Is vertical offset for wall foundation impossible?" now it has taken another turn...Join Geometry manually and automatically! this is the point where one most probably should bail... but wth here is a roundup and a reply to your original as well as alternate questions:

No it is not impossible, vertical offset to the foundation is applied to the wall and the foundation will follow as it is attached to the base of the wall
No you do not need a section to Join Geometry and cleanup joins. The section in the above GIF was for the convenience of comparing the end result to that which you showed in the image of the OP
No you do not have to join Walls and Floor MANUALLY one by one...
- When you first started your model placing your walls and floors/slabs, Revit must have prompted you asking whether to join walls to floors because they overlap. A prompt which you may have missed maybe (See GIF below - Take 1)
- Even if you have missed the above prompt or the prompt did not activate because you are one of those who place floors first then walls (Revit priorities which you mentioned), you can STILL Join ALL walls to the slab/floor using the check box Multiple Join
Same applies to other element...and if you do not like the join you can Switch it...and also use MULTIPLE
In the future, you will be most probably more advanced and can also use Dynamo to do all the above with basically 1 click.

So you see, it is not that tedious after all

Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

Prvoime — Sat, 24 Jul 2021 08:35:37 GMT

@RDAOU wrote:
this is the point where one most probably should bail..

Agreed 😄 In conclusion, not possible.

you can STILL Join ALL walls to the slab/floor using the check box Multiple Join

As I replied to barthbradley manual joining, even with "multiple", makes sense only on small projects. Attempting that on anything bigger and more complex would be a nightmare.

As for Dynamo, I think that a BIM program should be able to calculate material quantities correctly without turning users to programmers.

Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

RDAOU — Sat, 24 Jul 2021 09:56:25 GMT

@Prvoime

That was meant to bail out on the post...happens when it is obvious that the user posting the question is here neither for help nor a solution but only to rant 🙂

Yet again there are others who might come across one post or another, and are grateful to find the a piece of information which is helpful in solving their problem; hence, the previous reply.

Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

Prvoime — Sat, 24 Jul 2021 11:00:14 GMT

@RDAOU wrote:
happens when it is obvious that the user posting the question is here neither for help nor a solution but only to rant 🙂

No need for defensive attitude. Is there a top offset for foundations? No, there isn't.

There's a workaround for which I explained why it doesn't work for me, and I believe for anyone who works with block / concrete constructions. If it works for someone else, great!

Rant continued: honestly, yes, I feel like ranting, being European I may have made a mistake going with Revit instead of Archicad. So, SO many things are a workaround of one way or another. Not a CMU on mtl. stud? Workaround! I so often feel defeated trying to fight this piece of software because I'm wasting time and money figuring stuff out and trying to hack around things that seemingly go against common sense. All this from someone who successfully used Mental Ray for a long time 😄

Sorry for dumping this here, I know it doesn't belong.

Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

barthbradley — Sat, 24 Jul 2021 15:33:38 GMT

Since it's giving you so much grief, why don't use just forget the in-built Structural Foundation: Wall and create it as a Floor under the Slab? You can probably knock 'em out in your Project in less time than this thread discussion has taken. Good luck.

Re: Is vertical offset for wall foundation imposible?

Prvoime — Sat, 24 Jul 2021 15:51:14 GMT

@barthbradley wrote:
Since it's giving you so much grief, why don't use just forget the in-built Structural Foundation: Wall

Yup, that's what I'm doing, creating them as regular walls, just wanted to check if there's a better way.

Thanks everyone for helping!