topic Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping in Maya Shading, Lighting and Rendering Forum

Label on a bottle texture mapping

Anonymous — Mon, 20 May 2019 14:11:05 GMT

Learning Maya from Max right now.

Sorry for turning to the forum for what I am sure is a simple issue, but I have not been able to find out how to simply create/apply a shader that contains a bitmap w/alpha over another surface texture to create something as simple as say a label on a bottle.

I keep finding apparently older videos that show the Arnold Standard Surface having both refraction, reflection attributes, and that using the texture map in the refraction channel is how you get the label applied, or something like that, but there are no reflection/refraction slots in the ASS shader anymore that I can tell.

Anyway, what is the correct way to get a shader like this. Something so incredibly basic in other applications has me stumped with maya/arnold.

Thanks

Sam

Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping

sean.heasley — Tue, 21 May 2019 16:01:56 GMT

Hi @Anonymous

It depends how you want to do it really. The simplest way would be to make it all as one texture so the glass/plastic of the bottle and label share one texture. From there simply make an alpha texture that has the glass/plastic transparent but the label as solid. You would then apply that alpha map to the transparency part of the material.

Another option would be to have a separate model be the label. That way you can just make the bottle as a whole transparent and focus on texturing the label like in this video:

If one or more of these posts helped answer your question, please click Accept as Solution on the posts that helped you so others in the community can find them easily.

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Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping

Anonymous — Tue, 21 May 2019 16:25:27 GMT

@sean.heasley wrote:

Hi @Anonymous

It depends how you want to do it really. The simplest way would be to make it all as one texture so the glass/plastic of the bottle and label share one texture. From there simply make an alpha texture that has the glass/plastic transparent but the label as solid. You would then apply that alpha map to the transparency part of the material.

Another option would be to have a separate model be the label. That way you can just make the bottle as a whole transparent and focus on texturing the label like in this video:

If one or more of these posts helped answer your question, please click Accept as Solution on the posts that helped you so others in the community can find them easily.

Kudos are greatly appreciated. Everyone likes a thumbs up!

Thanks for answering.

I understand the first option, but that will not work for this project.

On the second - be warned...venting is coming!

That video exemplifies the frustration I am having with finding solutions to what are, to me, incredibly simple and basic "things that need doing in 3D".

I am asking how to apply a texture with an alpha channel.

In response is a video that is 16 minutes long, that is using a old version of Maya that bears almost no resemblance to the current version of Maya, and so has tons of stuff that I cant follow because the program has changed so much, and this all just compounds my frustration with Maya for making, to me, super simple things REALLY complex and full of steps.

I am currently in AOV hell as, once again, Maya seems to just REALLY over-complicate things that are so straightforward in other 3D apps.

Sorry for the rant!

Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping

sean.heasley — Tue, 21 May 2019 16:47:45 GMT

Hi @Anonymous

If you're just looking to assign a texture with an alpha all you have to do is plug the texture into the color tab of the material shader. From there if you have a light in the scene and press 7 on the keyboard you will preview what the model looks like with the texture and alpha applied.

If this isn't what you're looking for could you send me a scene file and/or screenshot so I can get a better idea of what you're trying to achieve?

Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping

Anonymous — Tue, 21 May 2019 16:56:14 GMT

@sean.heasley wrote:

Hi @Anonymous

If you're just looking to assign a texture with an alpha all you have to do is plug the texture into the color tab of the material shader. From there if you have a light in the scene and press 7 on the keyboard you will preview what the model looks like with the texture and alpha applied.

If this isn't what you're looking for could you send me a scene file and/or screenshot so I can get a better idea of what you're trying to achieve?

Sorry, cant send files due to clients etc.

If I do what you suggest above then all I get is the label floating in air. I need a layered material where I can tell the shader to use the alpha of the texture map to comp over the texture of the product bottle.

Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping

sean.heasley — Tue, 21 May 2019 17:32:51 GMT

Hi @Anonymous

We're under NDA as well so you can send it to me in a private message.

The alpha map will show the glass as completely transparent yes but that is when you need to tweak the refraction values as well as roughness etc.

This might help a bit more as its a recent video and specifically shows the glass process. From here you could just mark out a section for the label and/or again use a seperate model as the label.

Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping

Anonymous — Tue, 21 May 2019 19:48:35 GMT

@sean.heasley wrote:

Hi @Anonymous

We're under NDA as well so you can send it to me in a private message.

The alpha map will show the glass as completely transparent yes but that is when you need to tweak the refraction values as well as roughness etc.

This might help a bit more as its a recent video and specifically shows the glass process. From here you could just mark out a section for the label and/or again use a seperate model as the label.

Thanks again for the efforts, I do appreciate it, and sorry for ranting before.

I am not making a glass texture. The bottle in question is just a simple white plastic, but I need to be able to add a bit of a bump/noise etc. to make it look real.

I just thought I would surely find a simple step. 1, step 2, type thing on the old internet as this is something that happens all the time in CG.

Like a friend once told me, everything is easy once you know how to do it. I just don't know how to do it (yet!).

Also, I very early on tried the 2 models approach, and while the viewport showed me what I expected to see, the renders did not contain the bitmaps. I thought one of the models must be blocking the other one, so I scaled it a hair, but even then Arnold did not render the bitmaps. I then could not figure out why the hell that was happening and ended up here eventually.

thanks

Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping

sean.heasley — Tue, 21 May 2019 19:53:19 GMT

Hi @Anonymous

The same workflow applies you just need to add normal/height maps to the shader.

As long as you have the right texture plugged into the right spots and set up lights etc the shader should render fine. The process is basically identical to 3dsMax so I'm not sure where the confusion is coming from.

Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping

Anonymous — Tue, 21 May 2019 20:05:56 GMT

@sean.heasley wrote:

Hi @Anonymous

We're under NDA as well so you can send it to me in a private message.

The alpha map will show the glass as completely transparent yes but that is when you need to tweak the refraction values as well as roughness etc.

This might help a bit more as its a recent video and specifically shows the glass process. From here you could just mark out a section for the label and/or again use a seperate model as the label.

I have a stripped down version I can send, how do I send it to you?

sam

Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping

sean.heasley — Tue, 21 May 2019 20:22:55 GMT

Hi @Anonymous

If you click on my profile you should have the option to send it to me in a private message. You just need to make a shareable link with the file via google drive/dropbox etc. then send me that link.

Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping

sean.heasley — Tue, 21 May 2019 20:48:43 GMT

Hi @Anonymous

Thanks for sending me the file. I'm a bit confused now. You aren't doing a glass bottle but a white plastic material right?

So why not just texture the body of the bottle as one piece with the label?

You could take this bottle into a program like Substance Painter and have it textured very quickly then just import those textures into Maya to render. Since the bottle isn't going to be glass there's no reason for you to worry about refraction or anything like that you just need the standard albedo, roughness, normal and height.

Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping

Anonymous — Tue, 21 May 2019 21:07:33 GMT

@sean.heasley wrote:

Hi @Anonymous

Thanks for sending me the file. I'm a bit confused now. You aren't doing a glass bottle but a white plastic material right?

So why not just texture the body of the bottle as one piece with the label?

You could take this bottle into a program like Substance Painter and have it textured very quickly then just import those textures into Maya to render. Since the bottle isn't going to be glass there's no reason for you to worry about refraction or anything like that you just need the standard albedo, roughness, normal and height.

OK - what I am after is a technique, not just how to do this on this one file.

Trying to learn a super basic thing that is seeming to be anything but, for some reason.

Thanks

Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping

sean.heasley — Wed, 22 May 2019 16:38:09 GMT

Hi @Anonymous

Ah ok you basically need a guide on the technique. Most of this work would be via a texturing program like Substance Painter so I made a quick video going over UVs, exporting and texturing in Substance and sent it to you in a private message. Please let me know if you have any questions!

Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping

Anonymous — Wed, 22 May 2019 17:00:00 GMT

@sean.heasley wrote:
Hi @Anonymous

Ah ok you basically need a guide on the technique. Most of this work would be via a texturing program like Substance Painter so I made a quick video going over UVs, exporting and texturing in Substance and sent it to you in a private message. Please let me know if you have any questions!

Thanks, I got the message and it said the video was private and I needed to contact the sender to view it.

Also - I don't have substance designer, so this wont help.

Is there really now way to do this in Maya? I know there must be and am simply looking for a guide as to how. Super simple, I think the issue might be being overthought here.

Thanks again for your time and help.

Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping

sean.heasley — Wed, 22 May 2019 17:54:13 GMT

Hi @Anonymous

Sorry about that! I've fixed the link and sent it to you again in a private message.

If you're looking to only work in Maya then no, there isn't a "simple" way to do this. Texturing a prop requires a 3rd party application like Photoshop, Substance Painter, 3D Coat etc.

You can easily model, animate and render in Maya however if you want to have nice textures and materials for your models these will need to be made in one of the above mentioned programs and/or downloaded from a website like textures.com or megascans to name a few.

You may be right that I am overthinking this. If you can provide an example image of what you're going for I can clarify more but most likely you would need to follow the above steps.

Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping

Anonymous — Wed, 22 May 2019 19:29:24 GMT

@sean.heasley wrote:
Hi @Anonymous

Sorry about that! I've fixed the link and sent it to you again in a private message.

If you're looking to only work in Maya then no, there isn't a "simple" way to do this. Texturing a prop requires a 3rd party application like Photoshop, Substance Painter, 3D Coat etc.

You can easily model, animate and render in Maya however if you want to have nice textures and materials for your models these will need to be made in one of the above mentioned programs and/or downloaded from a website like textures.com or megascans to name a few.

You may be right that I am overthinking this. If you can provide an example image of what you're going for I can clarify more but most likely you would need to follow the above steps.

OK - if that is the case (which really, I mean no offense) I find kind of astounding, then how about -

How do I get Arnold to honor the texture application on an imported FBX file?

I can export a perfectly textured model from 3ds Max as an FBX, but after I import I have to change the material from phong to arnold standard shader, and at that point I lose the texture connection (never to be regained in my case).

That seems to be the quickest route to moving forward for me right now, and it is probably just my lack of understanding of Arnold amd Maya's intricacies in how the phong texture should be converted.

Thanks.

Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping

sean.heasley — Wed, 22 May 2019 19:50:53 GMT

Hi @Anonymous

Ah ok I didn't realize that is what you were doing.

If you're importing a file as is with the textures embedded into the scene you aren't going to be able to change the material to an Arnold shader unless you use a script to convert it.

The best method for this would be to have the actual texture jpg/png/tga files from the website or client etc and then manually create the Arnold shader within Maya.

Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping

Anonymous — Wed, 22 May 2019 20:10:37 GMT

@sean.heasley wrote:
Hi @Anonymous

Ah ok I didn't realize that is what you were doing.

If you're importing a file as is with the textures embedded into the scene you aren't going to be able to change the material to an Arnold shader unless you use a script to convert it.

The best method for this would be to have the actual texture jpg/png/tga files from the website or client etc and then manually create the Arnold shader within Maya.

But......you just told me I can't do that, did you not?

I...I....am I losing my mind here?

Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping

sean.heasley — Thu, 23 May 2019 20:34:33 GMT

Hi @Anonymous

The model won't automatically pick up on the textures just because you import the water bottle as an fbx.

If you have the actual texture files, you can make the Arnold shader and plug in the textures to the appropriate slots then apply that shader to the bottle.

I'm struggling to see where the confusion is. If you made a shader in Max and applied it to the bottle that is pretty much the identical workflow to Maya. If you just downloaded the model from a website that can make things a bit more complicated because it may be designed to be in Max, not Maya.

Re: Label on a bottle texture mapping

Anonymous — Thu, 23 May 2019 20:45:20 GMT

@sean.heasley wrote:
Hi @Anonymous

The model won't automatically pick up on the textures just because you import the water bottle as an fbx.

If you have the actual texture files, you can make the Arnold shader and plug in the textures to the appropriate slots then apply that shader to the bottle.

I'm struggling to see where the confusion is. If you made a shader in Max and applied it to the bottle that is pretty much the identical workflow to Maya. If you just downloaded the model from a website that can make things a bit more complicated because it may be designed to be in Max, not Maya.

Here's an idea!

You have the file you requested awhile back, maybe you could just set it up and send it back and then I'll be able to see what you did. Seems like the quickest route to wrapping this up!

Thanks.

sam