topic Unable to bake normals from HP to LP in Maya Modeling Forum

Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

pleiada — Sun, 20 Sep 2020 18:43:14 GMT

Hi! I am new to baking , but have some urgent project. I have modeled a projector and need to bake now the normals (high poly to low poly). I tried different variants of baking, but none of them worked. Can somebody help me?
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Ut27FzAMnwSDZRVIaogZVuQSsDduF0cF?usp=sharing

Re: Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

pleiada — Sun, 20 Sep 2020 18:46:46 GMT

Re: Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

_sebastian_f — Sun, 20 Sep 2020 21:10:15 GMT

a couple of questions first:

where do you bake?

whats the different variants you tried?

where do you want to use the baked normal maps?

if you bake in maya and use the normal map in maya it does not matter to much but if baker and engine are different you should consider triangulating your low poly mesh before you bake. if you are done modeling freeze all transforms before you explode the meshes so you can bring them back in the original position afterwards without dealing with multiple meshes.

last but most important to get any kind of result: your low poly needs a proper uv layout which is not existing in your model. without uv´s your baking can not work or will give you unexpected results at best.

Re: Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

mspeer — Sun, 20 Sep 2020 21:22:32 GMT

Hi!

1. There is not only one object to bake normals, there are 80 objects (you can't bake groups).

2. There are no proper UVs on your objects.

Please create proper (non-overlapping) UVs.

Re: Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

cavescholar — Sun, 20 Sep 2020 21:40:00 GMT

Hello, so maya Turtle is what you would use. Here is a link for Maya 2020 Turtle. The link is for Maya LT but Regular Maya has it too. you can also use Autodesk Mudbox, which is more specialized at baking HR to LR meshes.

Re: Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

pleiada — Mon, 21 Sep 2020 05:18:44 GMT

Yes, I see. One more question, is it possible to make an extrusion in high poly version and if it will be visible after applying normal maps (high to lowpoly) ? I am make a model for a game and need certain amount of polygons..

Re: Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

pleiada — Mon, 21 Sep 2020 05:21:48 GMT

I tried this method of matching names in Substance Painter, but I need to solve issues with uv unwrap first, as @mspeer says. It is a real mess now.

Re: Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

pleiada — Mon, 21 Sep 2020 05:25:34 GMT

Yes, thank you! I see that I need to uv unwrap my model properly. This a model for a game engine. And I tried baking in Maya and in Substance Painter (also using method of baking by matching names, then it shouldn't be one single object)

Re: Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

pleiada — Mon, 21 Sep 2020 06:01:21 GMT

And do I need to make uv map only for lowpoly model? Sorry for stupid questions, have never done this before.

Re: Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

mspeer — Mon, 21 Sep 2020 10:21:44 GMT

Hi!

You only need UVs if you use any textures.

As you want to add normal maps to your lowpoly model(s) and the highpoly model(s) do not have any textures, you only need UVs for your lowpoly model(s).

Re: Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

cavescholar — Tue, 22 Sep 2020 04:26:08 GMT

For substance you can have cuts in weird places and still be able to hide them because Substance is good at that. https://youtu.be/GvkLWQx0BpY (video Youtube, "Substance in Maya" Substance Academy ).

When baking you're baking the high-poly's normals into a 2d texture, then that image is used to simulate 3d space when used inside of a Material and applied to the low-poly. The low-poly should have enough geometry to help the normal map look good, but low enough to perform well. The UV maps between the two must match the space and shapes that they are laid out within. This ensures that the look and placement of the texture will match.

Just some thoughts, trying to learn Substance and Autodesk Mudbox, which is designed for what you are trying to do and works excellently for me. All 3 play nicely together and really make newer things possible. You take your low poly into Mudbox, make a layer ( non-destructive workflow) . Then you can subdivide (make high-poly). Then you can sculpt and do whatever at a high level. Then when you are done, you already have your low poly that had a UV when you imported it. So now you use Mudbox's tools to bake the textures.

One last thought, it is actually another learning video (Creature Modeling!), this one is from Autodesk but helped me to model in Maya and use Mudbox to learn how to make assets and textures.

(Pretty awesome video if you ask me, but don't ask me, because I think it's awesome 🙂 )

Good Luck!

Re: Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

pleiada — Tue, 22 Sep 2020 09:28:28 GMT

Well, I tied to make proper uv's, but the result is still very bad. Can you please tell me is it again the problem with the uv's? The details that should be rounded are still with sharp edges, almost nothing changed.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1IiQlmgkEt8_UvVu2Mp-1ngxlZRw595xm?usp=sharing

UVsLP with normal mapLP with normal mapHPHP

Re: Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

pleiada — Tue, 22 Sep 2020 10:09:56 GMT

Thank you for an advise! I haven't tried Mudbox yet. Need to learn Maya modeling now more for work. As I understand Maya does the same, you are modeling lowpoly and high model. UV map lowpoly and bake it. Isn't it?

Re: Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

mspeer — Tue, 22 Sep 2020 15:57:45 GMT

Hi!

@pleiada

Here it works in general, but you are right the quality is low and there are some problems.

The main 2 problems:

1. Your Texture is very small (1K). With this amount of detail I recommend at least 4K.

2. Your meshes have a lot of overlapping faces and intersecting parts.

Make sure only to keep faces that are really required and there are no intersections or overlapping parts.

(Otherwise the algorithm may not know what face should be used to bake the detail on).

The UV map seems to be in Objects Space, is this intended? (I would recommend Tangent Space).

Re: Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

pleiada — Tue, 22 Sep 2020 17:44:01 GMT

No, it wasn't intended. Could you please say where can I change it (tangent space)?

My task requires 1024 image size, so I am not able to overcome it.

Thanks for an advise about reducing mesh points. 🙏

Re: Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

cavescholar — Tue, 22 Sep 2020 22:16:27 GMT

Re: Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

mspeer — Wed, 23 Sep 2020 05:31:38 GMT

Hi!

The space needs to be set at the application where you create the UV maps.

In Maya it's in

Transfer Maps -> Output Maps -> Map Space.

However I tested to bake this here in Maya too and your settings are correct for Tangent Space.

I just was wondered because of some of the colors in the map, which seem to be caused by extreme angles of your surface.

Re: Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

mspeer — Wed, 23 Sep 2020 05:46:34 GMT

Hi!

Using a 4K map leads to a much better result.

1K vs 4K:

If you are limited to 1K texture size

- optimize your UVs

- split up your object into multiple objects/textures

You will not be able to get a proper result with the current setup.

Also some shape specific issues can't work, like I already mentioned.

- overlapping faces

- intersecting faces

- geometry that does not match closely enough HP vs LP

Re: Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

_sebastian_f — Wed, 23 Sep 2020 09:03:03 GMT

It might be i´m repeating something which was already said but i made some pics to explain some of your problems:

and keep your meshes exploded like you had it in the beginning when baking in maya or name matching for substance to prevent you from unnecessary artifacts.

Re: Unable to bake normals from HP to LP

pleiada — Sat, 26 Sep 2020 07:30:35 GMT

Yes, 4k is better, but I have to use only 1024. Also I reduced double points in Blender (still don't know how to do it in Maya or Cinema 4d..) after your advise. And have changed some conflict topology. Thank you!