topic Re: Hair and eyelashes in Maya Dynamics Forum

Hair and eyelashes

everend.gokotta — Wed, 15 Dec 2021 18:52:42 GMT

Hello everyone I would like to know at what part of the production hair and eyelashes animated is it a part of character FX department? as if I mean ornatrix/xgen type of facial covers. I have mesh hair and mesh eyelashes and am going to start facial rigging process, only I am not sure when to add simulation. Any advice or link would help. Thanks 🤗

Re: Hair and eyelashes

DyllanCFX — Sat, 18 Dec 2021 03:26:11 GMT

If it's mesh/polygon hairs, the model can come from modeling. Rigging then can do their setup, animators animate, then CFX can do their setup and simulate.

When it comes to Ornatrix/Xgen, Groomer can start the moment model is ready. Which is about the same time rigging picks up and do their setup. Again, simulation after the character is animated.

Here's a simple flow for the process:

Modeling > Grooming > Rigging > Animate > CFX / Simulation

*Side note: CFX generally don't simulate short hairs like beard (stubble) and eyelashes. Unless, it's a close up shot. It's usually setup deformed by the mesh surface, which can be done in Rigging or CFX stage.

Re: Hair and eyelashes

everend.gokotta — Sun, 19 Dec 2021 10:35:20 GMT

Thanks much for such a clear explanation. My confusion comes from the fact that I would like to go through this process myself but I am not familiar with simulation and CFX stage, theoreticaly some but no practice. Looking forward to find good on-line courses on those topics. I think of octane render but I would appreciate any advice on this, too. Also wonder about Adobe Substance in terms of CFX🕶

I wasn't sure I can "round up" rigging process (considering editorial is always there). I think I have a follow up question. As I think I will proceed with ornatrix for CFX (e.g hair, eyelashes, eyebrows), do I send a model to animator with hair meshes or with no indication at all? (while topology hold an idea where grooming should go)?

🤖all best

Re: Hair and eyelashes

DyllanCFX — Mon, 20 Dec 2021 15:57:35 GMT

Yes, you pass down the hair meshes because, in production, not all shots needs CFX treatment. Also, it'll be nice if animator animates the hair so CFX can have idea on what motion or timing they should go with. If anything, generally people want to see some sort of representation coming out of animation. Character with no hair just isn't as pleasing to look at.

For the shots that needs CFX treatment, CFX just hide the hair mesh, do the simulation and render with whatever renderer then present it that way.

I don't have experience on Substance or Octane, I would only recommend use the renderer that is compatible with Ornatrix/Xgen/Substance all together. The last thing you want is render the hair with one render and rest of the scene with another then have to figure out some way to composite them back together seamlessly...

Re: Hair and eyelashes

everend.gokotta — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 18:12:54 GMT

Thanks much for the reply🤓 The thing I didn't consider at all is that computability with rendering software for all of different exports, thanks for that.

"If anything, generally people want to see some sort of representation coming out of animation" - I guess I am wondering would that be reasonable to send ''ornatrix'' hair to an animator instead of mesh since I am going to create those anyways. As I understand the answer would be - No.

Re: Hair and eyelashes

DyllanCFX — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 08:49:26 GMT

Ornatrix hair adds complicity to the rig and it will slow down animator's scene. In a smaller production, you can add it to the rig and push it through to simplify the process. But in large production, there are usually 2 rigs. One for animator and another one for CFX artists, each one optimized for their own needs.

Re: Hair and eyelashes

everend.gokotta — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 14:21:52 GMT

Thanks fo the information! As I proceed with facial expressions I also wonder which way is better to have eyebrows blendshapes or kind of draw those brows as a CFX on top of a head mesh. Which would make it more of 2d animation technique I guess. You don't have to answer but if you have something to say, I would appreciate👾