topic Re: tool outside boundary in Machining Discussions Forum

tool outside boundary

Anonymous — Thu, 07 Sep 2017 08:01:34 GMT

I have one suggest.

In selection tab, "tool outside boundary" in my opinion is not best solved. Or, You can put new option that tool force milling outside boundary! It means, when we check line, tool work just outside this line, not inside features. Now, when i check this option, tool goes inside and outside this line. From this reason i must draw double check than go to "tool inside boundary"!!!

Best regards

Re: tool outside boundary

Anonymous — Thu, 07 Sep 2017 13:08:25 GMT

No "double check", i was made gramatical mistake in previuos post. Need to stay "double sketch".

Re: tool outside boundary

lenny_1962 — Fri, 08 Sep 2017 13:57:37 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

I have one suggest.

In selection tab, "tool outside boundary" in my opinion is not best solved. Or, You can put new option that tool force milling outside boundary! It means, when we check line, tool work just outside this line, not inside features. Now, when i check this option, tool goes inside and outside this line. From this reason i must draw double check than go to "tool inside boundary"!!!

Best regards

@Anonymous

you are over thinking this, it really like cutting a 2D contour, you can make the cutter stay on the left side or the center or to the right side

so for 3D using boundaries, with one boundary (pocket) you are telling the cutter to stop at 3 possible places on the cutter, tangent to the boundary, center of cutter on the boundary or you want it to travel past the boundary a certain amount aka outside of boundary, just like giving a 2D contour a negative stock to leave.

so if you need more control of where you need the cutter to stay within then yes 2 boundaries are needed, I have 2 other CAM softwares that do this exactly the same, so it seems to be a industry standard.

if you would put up a pic or the model with the toolpath in it we can help you more with possible other options to get what you need.

Re: tool outside boundary

scottmoyse — Sun, 10 Sep 2017 21:04:16 GMT

I agree with @lenny_1962. Although, granted it would be nice to just have to select one boundary contour, then choose an option to take the boundary all the way out to the stock contour, or something to that effect.... but it's not likely that it will be implemented since you can easily end up with a tonne of checkboxes adding behavioural changes like this in the software. And in this case, it's pretty simple to add a rectangle in a sketch, or select the edge of modelled stock etc etc.

Re: tool outside boundary

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Sep 2017 06:10:15 GMT

Ok, i can agree with You(both), but not complete.

One question. Please, can You explain me difference between "tool inside boundary" and "tool outside boundary" and why when we check "inside" tool force milling inside, in case "outside" we have different situation?!

I am not new in this software, more than 100 mold tools i am made in HSMWorks.

Offcourse, is not problem for me add rectangle, but i think that is possible put one option for force milling outside boundary in 3d milling options.

regards

Re: tool outside boundary

Laurens-3DTechDraw — Mon, 11 Sep 2017 06:25:05 GMT

Currently, there is no option to force to tool to not go inside of a boundary.

(Making an extra solid could help though)

@Rob_Lockwood made a good video on what inside, outside or center mean: https://youtu.be/tz9cSgEdGYk?t=6m2s

Re: tool outside boundary

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Sep 2017 07:29:04 GMT

Hello, Mr. Laurens,

Yes, i know that now we have not option for force milling outside boundary. This is just my suggest for some new realise of Software.

regards

Re: tool outside boundary

scottmoyse — Mon, 11 Sep 2017 07:38:14 GMT

You can create a post on the ideastation and see how many people vote for it. Then maybe it will get implemented.

Re: tool outside boundary

lenny_1962 — Mon, 11 Sep 2017 14:03:59 GMT

@Anonymous

Easiest way to explain this is......................... It's where the tool "STOPS" that's all it means. nothing more, nothing less, sorry.

What you are really asking for is is more of a which side of the boundary do you want to start from, like a 2D contour using the reverse function. correct?

Then again you might still want to control where the tool stops from the other direction. correct?

Which means the inside-center-outside would still need to work the same, correct?

So here is my take on what "TOOL OUTSIDE OF BOUNDARY" means, it is so you can blend onto other faces so as not to create any hard lines of where one path ends to another already cut, making a clean transition. Sometimes good, sometimes bad if your machine grows there still might be an edge\step created.

As @scottmoyse suggested make an enhancement request for SIDE OF BOUNDARY to start from not by changing what it the current norm for tool outside of boundary.

JMO

Re: tool outside boundary

Rob_Lockwood — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 03:40:33 GMT

I'd also add, it's equally annoying that we can have multiple boundaries, but must select a single option (inside/center/outside) that applies to ALL boundaries, rather than being able to apply that setting to each. It's a fairly common that you want to mix/match, and it effectively forces geometry construction.. It's not a huge issue, but the idealist in me see's opportunity.

Re: tool outside boundary

lenny_1962 — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 15:39:28 GMT

@Rob_Lockwood wrote:

I'd also add, it's equally annoying that we can have multiple boundaries, but must select a single option (inside/center/outside) that applies to ALL boundaries, rather than being able to apply that setting to each. It's a fairly common that you want to mix/match, and it effectively forces geometry construction.. It's not a huge issue, but the idealist in me see's opportunity.

Now that's one a can totally jump on board for!

Re: tool outside boundary

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 09:20:40 GMT

I will agree with You (all) in moment when someone exsplain me matematical and geometric difference between inside/outside boundaries. I think, no difference. This is not philosophy, this is just command to tool that must go inside or outside boundaries. It is not nuclear fusion.

Example, i have one close chain and this is my boundaries. I want remove material whit rough operation (3d adaptive or pocket), in some cases i need that tool goes inside the boundaries , and this is correct, but in some cases i want work outside this close chain. In this moment, i can not do this with one of the option (inside/centar/outside), than i must add rectangle or circle or any closed chain that i can work AGAIN inside this new boundary. WHY WE HAVE OPTIONS (outside) WHICH THEY DO NOT USE???

Re: tool outside boundary

Laurens-3DTechDraw — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 09:59:53 GMT

@Anonymous

Outside works. It just means something else than you expected.

So you would want another boundary option that excludes the selected boundary from the path. That would still need the inside/center/outside of the boundary. Just changes if it's included or excluded for the toolpath.

Re: tool outside boundary

lenny_1962 — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:29:48 GMT

sorry you don't get it.

again the function of the inside\center\outside of boundary is for stopping the tool not telling it the side of the boundary you want to cut!!

this is an industry standard for CAM for tool containment. been using this in other CAM software for 10 plus years so it is great the HSM follows that standard.

Re: tool outside boundary

narzinskin — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:12:59 GMT

I use this in my training as it is easier than putting into words.

Re: tool outside boundary

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 18:53:12 GMT

Gents,

I submitted this about a year ago in the idea station. Please vote it up...

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/hsm-ideas/have-the-ability-to-set-different-tool-containment-types-for/idi-p/6553370

Re: tool outside boundary

narzinskin — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 19:07:29 GMT

I voted on this back when you created it, but this is in the works and pretty much describes the Blend operation as i understand it.

Re: tool outside boundary

scottmoyse — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 19:55:09 GMT

@lenny_1962 wrote:

this is an industry standard for CAM for tool containment. been using this in other CAM software for 10 plus years so it is great the HSM follows that standard.

Agreed! It's fine the way it is.

Re: tool outside boundary

lenny_1962 — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 21:02:51 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Gents,

I submitted this about a year ago in the idea station. Please vote it up...

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/hsm-ideas/have-the-ability-to-set-different-tool-containment-types-for/idi-p/6553370

nope

Re: tool outside boundary

Laurens-3DTechDraw — Fri, 13 Oct 2017 05:02:29 GMT

@Anonymous.narzinski wrote:

I voted on this back when you created it, but this is in the works and pretty much describes the Blend operation as i understand it.

Well no. Blend just is surface driven. And will cut the selected surface. And make sure it doesn't go through other surfaces. But there is no boundary containment for that toolpath.