topic Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations? in Machining Discussions Forum

Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 12:56:01 GMT

Ok here is the situation...we are trying to o.d. chamfer and part off with the same tool(.098 wide tool). There is no way that i have found to make this work with HSMworks. Is there something I'm missing or doing wrong?

Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

Lonnie.Cady — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 13:04:30 GMT

it has been mentioned many times but to my knowledege it has yet to be implemented. It is also in the ideastation for Fusion.

Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

Lonnie.Cady — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 13:06:31 GMT

Here is the idea station link

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/ideastation-request-a-feature-or/support-for-chamfer-with-partoff-operation/idi-p/5984422

Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 13:16:30 GMT

I also would like to use a grooving tool to face. We part off thin walled tubing and use a .062 wide top notch tool to chamfer/face and chamfer/ part off, 1 tool. We are using our old software to make lathe programs because of these limitations.

Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

jeff.walters — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 14:23:26 GMT

This is one of the things that is on the list of things to add/change for turning.

Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 18:26:27 GMT

Is there a timiline for these changes?

Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

jeff.walters — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 13:44:08 GMT

none that i know of

Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

Laurens-3DTechDraw — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 13:57:53 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Is there a timiline for these changes?

Timelines will not be given for Autodesk CAM features or bug fixes. Everybody has tried to get those but they won't give any. (and if you get a timeframe it's usually too optimistic if I look at the past) So soldier on and have patience. It will arrive one day and it will make you happy.

Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

Lonnie.Cady — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 15:33:24 GMT

@Laurens-3DTechDraw that should be the new cam slogan "soldier on and have patience"

Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

Greg_Haisley — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 16:48:28 GMT

So, we are to tell the customer to wait it's being worked on by my CAM developer? Please be patient.

Or when an employee doesn't show up - we are to tell the customer to wait he will be here tomorrow to get your parts done.

I turned 60 a few months ago and at this rate I'll be retired before development gets these obvious issues resolved.

There - I feel better already. Don't you?

This rant powered by Greg Haisley. Camtool Inc.

Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

Lonnie.Cady — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 17:14:33 GMT

@Camtool-Ind wrote:
So, we are to tell the customer to wait it's being worked on by my CAM developer? Please be patient.

Yes! You got it.

Other options would be, and I quote "Fall back" on my old software until they catch up. Hope everyone has an old software to "fall back on". Purchase all 3 ADSK cam products and see if one fits the current job and rotate cam systems as needed.

Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 17:16:33 GMT

I'm glad we held off on purchasing another seat. I can't wait much longer to be able to complete a simple task. We are a job shop and make upwards of 10 programs in 1 shift...times that by 3 shifts and you see where I'm going with this. We are not seeing a return on our investment by using our old software and i'm not going to spend money on training until these issues are fixed. This is frustrating.

However, i did find a work around for chamfering at time of part off. Using a sketched groove with the chamfer included it is possible. Use grooving part to clear for chamfering using the bottom of the chamfer for the diameter to groove to. Next use profile groove(finish only) and select the sketched groove in the "model" box and it will do what you want it to do. The sketched groove will need to be wider than the tool used or the tool will only generate the chamfer or radius you have called out in your sketch. It takes extra time and it is crude but it works for now.

Oh and another thing i came across...why are drills only able to be feed in IPM in lathes? Or is this something I'm doing wrong?

Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 17:57:48 GMT

Using the grooving pattern setting in turning you can chamfer, finish sideways, etc..... This is with InvHSM. I do this with my part-off tool on many programs. Not sure why this is such a big deal here.

Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

al.whatmough — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 19:06:03 GMT

There are two separate issues to address here:

1) The definition of Grooving operation vs Profiling operation.

2) Chamfering with the parting operation

I will address the second issue first, as it is easier. Adding to Support for Chamfering in the parting operations is prioritized in the backlog but not something that has active resources on it yet.

Now the first issue has to do with a fundamental understanding of how the two different turning strategies work in general, they are driven by the type of tool you are using, not the cutting direction. With that said, a grooving tool is typically used perpendicular to the spindle and a profiling tool is typically used parallel to the spindle.

I will start by showing the UI from Fusion and from HSMWorks and you can see both tool types can work parallel or perpendicular to the Axis.

Defualt Profiling definition:

Profiling tool - Parrallel to the Z Axis

Face Profiling

Profiling tool - Face profiling or -90 pass dirrection

Default Grooving opperation

Grooving tool - Perpendicular to the Z axis

Sidways grooving

Grooving tool - Sideways Grooving pattern

To throw one more curve ball, you can also you “Pass direction to set an arbitrary direction also:

45 deg pass dirrection

Or, specify a tool Orientation + a Pass Dirrection

I hope this helps

Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

al.whatmough — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 19:08:10 GMT

@Anonymous I added a ticket in the system for a check box in the drill oppeartion to "use feed per rev"

It should be an easy fix

Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

Lonnie.Cady — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 19:11:18 GMT

@al.whatmough the lead ins look a little funny in this one

Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

skidsolo — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 19:19:01 GMT

Is the chamfer for parting going to depend on the chamfer being represented by the model? Or are we just going to add the chamfer moves independently of the model? A lot of models that come from manufacturers to contractors don't have the chamfer included in the model but require it in the print (bible)

Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

al.whatmough — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 19:20:14 GMT

@Lonnie.Cady good eye, I was a little fast in my explination.

the leadins are cutting an internal bore. I could have easly limited the ID

Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

al.whatmough — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 19:21:42 GMT

@skidsolo Thank you calling out a clarifcation.

The planned behaviour is for chamfers NOT modeled

Re: Why are grooving tools not supported for turning operations?

Lonnie.Cady — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 19:22:00 GMT

Not the leadin I was talking about. How would you lead in going up on an od turn?