topic Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time in Inventor Forum

Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

AnthonyHarris90842 — Mon, 15 Nov 2021 07:51:09 GMT

I have a multibody part which I use in an assembly.
I then projected geometry from another part to use in the multibody part.

Every time I move the part called roller the projected geometry is lost even though the roller hasnt changed at all.

This happens all the time.
See images below and I have attached the Inventor files

Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

gcoombridge — Mon, 15 Nov 2021 09:17:45 GMT

Remember this thread: https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-forum/adaptivity/m-p/9995165#M813421

Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

johnsonshiue — Mon, 15 Nov 2021 21:07:19 GMT

Hi Anthony,

Does the assembly or the part have multiple Model States?

Many thanks!

Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

AnthonyHarris90842 — Tue, 16 Nov 2021 06:20:26 GMT

Hi Johnson
No it doesnt

Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

AnthonyHarris90842 — Tue, 16 Nov 2021 06:21:45 GMT

Yeah I remember that thread.
I am still sitting with this problem.
I wish Autodesk can leave everything else and just put all their efforts into fixing adaptivity.
The whole world will thank them for it

Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

robertast — Tue, 16 Nov 2021 14:08:46 GMT

@AnthonyHarris90842

Last year, johnsonshiue proved to me that an adaptive (redesigned from another detail) sketch will no longer work well during assembly. The only way is to "copy a component" that still works well. I don't know when I will stop working;)

In any case, the Autodesk team must verify that this method is working correctly when releasing each new version. Because it remained the only method that worked. And if he disappears to use Inventory will no longer make sense 😞

Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

johnsonshiue — Tue, 16 Nov 2021 21:44:35 GMT

Hi Anthony,

If possible, please share the files with me. I would like to understand the behavior better. It could be a bug or a limitation as Robertas mentioned.

Many thanks!

Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

gcoombridge — Tue, 16 Nov 2021 22:33:14 GMT

@AnthonyHarris90842 in 22 years they haven't fixed it so I would find a better workflow. I may be wrong but I think much of the problem is the amount of computing power required to calculated changes to references across a web of files...

Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

robertast — Tue, 16 Nov 2021 23:21:37 GMT

@gcoombridge Not quite right. If the geometry design is used a little, everything will work just a few times. But if you change the details from which the dimensions are designed often, it will be bad.
It was an analogy to borrow money that no one knew who owed it anymore.
I have described to you the only method that works stably. I don’t know how long it will take to run stably.

Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

johnsonshiue — Wed, 17 Nov 2021 00:43:59 GMT

Hi Robertas,

I vaguely remember the analogy I made. It was sadly funny. Please share the thread or the email I sent you. I no longer have it now.

Many thanks!

Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

gcoombridge — Wed, 17 Nov 2021 02:08:39 GMT

@robertast the problem with what you describe is that because referencing geometry in an assembly is the easiest workflow it is usually over-used with highly unstable results. It is best as an Inventor operator to avoid it altogether in my opinion (one that is widely shared I believe). Deriving or the related multi-solid bodies workflow are FAR more stable.

I've never bothered to use copy object but no doubt that works better...

Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

AnthonyHarris90842 — Wed, 17 Nov 2021 06:27:30 GMT

Hi Johnson
The files are attached to my original post

Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

robertast — Wed, 17 Nov 2021 08:44:01 GMT

@gcoombridge multi-solid bodies This is a separate theme and slows down the work very much if you need to transfer overall dimensions to the partlist. It is much faster to work with part blanks.
As for adaptability. If in your work you do not need to connect parts through holes - then yes. Otherwise, you cannot do without it. At least that's more convenient, faster and more understandable.
Project geometry and adaptive worked well in version 2000. But then with each new version, the errors became more and more. There is only one stable working method that I described above. Although in version 2022, errors are sometimes encountered, but rarely.

Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

gcoombridge — Wed, 17 Nov 2021 09:00:08 GMT

Couldn't disagree more @robertast. I've used derived parts successfully in complex assemblies for many years. While I've avoided cross part associations because they are rampantly unstable, I've had to fix colleagues work and understand the pitfalls. All the same, I'm pleased it's been successful for you as a workflow...

Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

robertast — Wed, 17 Nov 2021 09:33:37 GMT

@gcoombridge

Yes, there were good times, mongo of good experience. But everything changes;)

Now I'm trying to use a "link parameter" to bypass the adaptive parts. The method by which I make a new one from one assembly is visible here: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/robertasta_design-furniture-construction-activity-6805798812897173504-FBW3

Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

johnsonshiue — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 02:08:03 GMT

Hi Anthony,

The files are incomplete. Please attach the roller part. I would like to see the failure when rollers are there.

Many thanks!

Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

AnthonyHarris90842 — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 07:58:33 GMT

Hi Johnson

I attached the roller in this reply

Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

AnthonyHarris90842 — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 08:04:58 GMT

I have also done complex assemblies using a single multibody part to avoid adaptivity from one part to the next.
The problem comes in when I have purchased items like a motor and need to transfer the holes to a plate in the multi body part and then I need to use adaptivity

Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

robertast — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 10:12:36 GMT

@AnthonyHarris90842 I do this when I need to move holes from one part to another

Re: Projected geometry losing its reference all the time

SBix26 — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 15:25:13 GMT

It's still possible to use multi-body master modeling with purchased parts. Derive the purchased part into your multi-body master as surfaces, Move Body to position it where you want it, then project features as needed. It's not a perfect solution for every situation, but neither is adaptivity (as you've discovered).

Sam B
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