topic Drawing: re-order parts in model list [browser] in Inventor Forum

Drawing: re-order parts in model list [browser]

eli_duykers — Wed, 22 Mar 2023 12:21:51 GMT

Hi all,

Hopefully this is a simple one. I'm just trying to re-order the items/parts in the model list, as shown on the left of a drawing. I've just thrown this example together for reference purposes. I have searched, both on here and on Google, but it's hard to find relevant results.

Motivation: sometimes when editing existing files, the addition or removal of items, this list ends up messy or even misleading for anyone else viewing the file.

Re: Drawing: re-order parts in model list [browser]

Frederick_Law — Wed, 22 Mar 2023 13:05:49 GMT

1 part, 1 drawing.

Make your life easier.

You'll need macro or iLogic to do what you want to do.

Re: Drawing: re-order parts in model list [browser]

eli_duykers — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 03:26:00 GMT

What about creating a drawing for an assembly, especially combining 3D elements and manually drawn 2D elements? I suppose the real issue is that Inventor's drawing environment feels like it wasn't designed for what I need, but I'm somewhat at a loss as to a better solution.

I used AutoCAD many, many moons ago but have hesitations around its capacity to import and manage 3D parts as 2D drawing elements. Very open to ideas here.

Re: Drawing: re-order parts in model list [browser]

A.Acheson — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 03:53:35 GMT

"What about creating a drawing for an assembly, especially combining 3D elements and manually drawn 2D elements? I suppose the real issue is that Inventor's drawing environment feels like it wasn't designed for what I need, but I'm somewhat at a loss as to a better solution."

Yes this is possible, copy sketch to workplane and create a block similar to Autocad and constrain to origin using constraints tools. The mouse can tend to wonder from sketch point when moving a block or sketch geometry.

Ideally you would create the physical geometry using the dwg imported as a underlay or by copying the sketches in and using the 3d model tools for extruding/ revolving the geometry.

Regarding the drawing and browser, what changes are you looking to achieve here?. Are those three seperate parts you have placed into one sheet? For the views you should be able to manually sort those by dragging them in front of each other or to a new sheet.

Re: Drawing: re-order parts in model list [browser]

Frederick_Law — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 13:03:01 GMT

Inventor doesn't work like AutoCAD.

Similar.

IV separate the AutoCAD file's model space, paperspace into 2 files.

Model (part, assembly) and drawing.

In the drawing, you're working in Paperspace, view port into model space.

Model the parts in 3D and you will not be fighting the system.

Many moons ago I was on drafting table. ACAD9-14, MDT14, IV1-2023. Some SW in between.

I was doing 1 part 1 drawing, 3D model, assembly in ACAD14.

Re: Drawing: re-order parts in model list [browser]

johnsonshiue — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 21:50:55 GMT

Hi! Just another workflow to explore, AutoCAD can create associative drawing views to Inventor components. If you like AutoCAD's drafting workflows, you may want to look into VIEWBASE command. After the views are created, you can use AutoCAD's drafting tools to annotate the drawing.

Many thanks!

Re: Drawing: re-order parts in model list [browser]

eli_duykers — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 03:24:41 GMT

Hi all, thank you for your replies. I've been considering these suggestions and having a bit of a play with it - although I I've also found a spare moment to make a sample drawing to illustrate the challenges I'm encountering.

Challenge 1: Cartesian management of placed views

Can placed views be constrained or moved on the page in a cartesian manner? Surely they have page coordinates in the file somewhere, but I can't find a menu or means to control them numerically. Likewise, say I want to add an arbitrary dimension between the part on the left, and the part on the right. Obviously the actual number measured on the page is fairly interpretable/trivial, but in creating an assembly drawing, it may be important to annotate.

Challenge 2: Sketch snap points on drawings

Say I want to make a sketch that uses both of these parts as snap points. I believe any sketch created directly in a *.dwg can only interact with the part/view it's created under. Project Geometry seems permanently greyed out in any environment I can find, so any sketch created directly in a drawing ends up floating or "not quite right." I've made an example below. The diagonal line is in the sketch "No Parenting (top)" and cannot snap to any points on either part. The arc in the active sketch is parented to the lower part, snaps nicely to that but cannot interact with or snap to the top part.

Challenge 3: Annotating between parts

Okay, so here's a very rubbery example of what I'm trying to achieve. Everything bar the connection header parts at each end is manually added in the *.dwg. The diagonal lines have the aforementioned snapping issue, the alignment of the parts is questionable (I'm aware of the Place View > Modify > Vertical/Horizontal function, but not any offset or datum control), and perhaps most notable is the "especially problematic" dimension below. I've had to add the red line in a sketch to allow that dimension to be created. The red line is itself floating and not snapping to the intended points. I can hide the red line, but it definitely feels like a hack job.

The only workaround I can think of is making an assembly of the required parts and importing that as one to the drawing, so that the elements I'm trying to express in a sketch are replaced by 3D solids. I'm trying to avoid doing that, because I'd like a workflow for other employees which only involves updating a drawing, minimising the skill requirements and complexity of working with assemblies etc.

Re: Drawing: re-order parts in model list [browser]

johnsonshiue — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 00:37:41 GMT

Hi! I could be wrong but I think the type of drafting workflows that you are looking for are not available in Inventor. Inventor's drawing environment is very component centric. Each drawing view represents the 3D component (an assembly or a part) in a 2D view. The annotations are all within the particular view, not across views.

We have users having similar requirements. We develop a combination of Inventor/AutoCAD workflows to accomplish it. Basically, you create the drawing views in Inventor without annotating the views. Next, save the drawing as Inventor dwg file. Then open the dwg file in AutoCAD -> EXPORTLAYOUT to push the layout to another AutoCAD dwg file for annotating purpose.

Or, you can simply skip the EXPORTLAYOUT step and open the Inventor dwg file in AutoCAD to annotate the views. Regardless, it does require Inventor and AutoCAD to be used at the same time.

Many thanks!

Re: Drawing: re-order parts in model list [browser]

eli_duykers — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 12:22:40 GMT

Thank you. Inventor's drawing space strikes me as a bit of a missed opportunity - arguably the industry standard in forming 3D parts and assemblies, but very hamstrung in its capacity to produce complex drawings from them. Perhaps something for Autodesk to consider for future development, given the company owns IP capable of doing this far greater service.

Re: Drawing: re-order parts in model list [browser]

Frederick_Law — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 13:12:33 GMT

To do what you want, you need an assembly.

Put all the parts in assembly and bring it into the drawing.

You don't need to model the cable. Just the shape you want to see in drawing.

IV and other 3D CAD has reduced drawing capability. The model drive the drawing.

No more "cheat" in drawings. Put as much info in the model.

It is like Modelspace, Paperspace, Viewport work flow in ACAD.

Not one drawing contain all the parts.

Used ACAD9 to MDT14. Started 3D in ACAD14.

Most of the hamstring I saw were ACAD cheat which is not available in IV.

Re: Drawing: re-order parts in model list [browser]

eli_duykers — Fri, 31 Mar 2023 06:49:20 GMT

The assembly workflow isn't particularly feasible for high-volume output of standardised drawings, especially for multiple newer users. I also have my reservations about Inventor's ability to retain annotations, dimensions etc in a drawing when altering an assembly. I do believe there's still a place for manual drafting, and that it should not foreclose the integration of 3D models. Perhaps AutoCAD has better workflows for this without needing to cross-platform; I might have to activate a trial and experiment, time pending.

It just seems mad to me that the drawing space doesn't have any sort of cartesian controls. Even MS Powerpoint has cartesian fields for text and shapes. The inability to make two leaders symmetrical/mirrored in a drawing seems unprofessional. If Inventor is the flagship for 3D part and assembly creation, it needs to be able to produce professional drawings. Anyway, that's my two cents, but I'll take on board everyone's advice. At least I'm not missing something obvious!

Re: Drawing: re-order parts in model list [browser]

Frederick_Law — Fri, 31 Mar 2023 13:02:56 GMT

I don't think you can dimension between Viewports in ACAD.

"I also have my reservations about Inventor's ability to retain annotations, dimensions etc in a drawing when altering an assembly."

As long as the parts are same file or copy of that file, everything stay connected.

"Even MS Powerpoint has cartesian fields for text and shapes."

Have you try MSPaint for drafting? 🤐

Since I used IV, I don't want to do drawings in ACAD.

All info should be in model. Drawing is only a view at the model and pull info from it.

If the drawing is deleted and info is lost, something wrong.

The trend is to move away from drawings.

Slowly.

Re: Drawing: re-order parts in model list [browser]

johnsonshiue — Fri, 31 Mar 2023 22:58:36 GMT

Hi Frederick,

I think your AutoCAD knowledge is a bit rusty now. AutoCAD is super versatile. Dimension can be done in any given two points regardless of viewports. This is why it is the best drafting tool on the market for 40 years.

Many thanks!