topic Re: Section through multiple PCD holes in Inventor Forum

Section through multiple PCD holes

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Jul 2016 20:05:43 GMT

I commonly need to section and dimension round parts with multiple holes on different PCD and at different angles. I need to know how to show several holes in one view. Please help. I did this in AutoCad for years and labeled the view "some features rotated for clarity". I need Inventor to do the same thing. I have tried everything and scoured google. I have attached a screen shot of the model. This one is actually pretty simple. I need to jam as many features into one section view as possible. I hope someone can please help me with this.

Re: Section through multiple PCD holes

Mark.Lancaster — Wed, 20 Jul 2016 21:14:33 GMT

Quick reply...

Select the drawing view where the section will be created from... Then start a 2d sketch so the section line will be associated to the drawing and then project/sketch your section line as needed. However its not like normal sketching.. Section line as to go in order/one direction. example:

Sorry for the short reply... (Heading out and saw this)...

Re: Section through multiple PCD holes

dan_inv09 — Wed, 20 Jul 2016 21:14:35 GMT

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-ideas/idb-p/v1232/tab/most-recent

I guess we all just lost the will to keep fighting on this one, it used to come up a lot - but I can't find a suggestion for it (maybe I'm just not thinking of the correct search terms).

Write it up. If it is already there someone will point it out. Either way post the link here so we can vote for it, thanks.

Re: Section through multiple PCD holes

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Jul 2016 21:25:38 GMT

Thanks,

What I am looking to do is get ALL of the holes in one section. Any ideas on that? If I section using 2 simple lines, I can only get 2 features in a section. I would like the features to be rotated to get as many as possible in one section (assuming they don't overlap).

Thanks again for your help.

Re: Section through multiple PCD holes

dan_inv09 — Wed, 20 Jul 2016 21:30:48 GMT

This is the example we used to ask for:

You really can't get them all in one without constructing a special part for that.

Hide the section made from the real part (if you want to keep the section line) and hide the base view of your special part.

Re: Section through multiple PCD holes

mdavis22569 — Wed, 20 Jul 2016 21:32:06 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Thanks,

What I am looking to do is get ALL of the holes in one section. Any ideas on that? If I section using 2 simple lines, I can only get 2 features in a section. I would like the features to be rotated to get as many as possible in one section (assuming they don't overlap).

Thanks again for your help.

Why do you want them ALL?

What Mark showed you is what you'd really want to have the part made ... at least this is how I section a Flange type parts to show holes..

Re: Section through multiple PCD holes

dan_inv09 — Wed, 20 Jul 2016 21:36:52 GMT

@mdavis22569 wrote:

Why do you want them ALL?

Because that is the way you are supposed to do it.

Drafting standards have given way to software capabilities - if the programmers don't want to try we have to stop trying to do the prints correctly.

Re: Section through multiple PCD holes

dan_inv09 — Wed, 20 Jul 2016 21:49:50 GMT

It's sort of like doing this

except with a round part.

This is what they used to teach when they used to teach drafting

Re: Section through multiple PCD holes

Daniel248 — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 12:07:32 GMT

Hi Dan,

Yes, that’s the way they used to teach us when we had just AutoCAD – and there’s nothing wrong with that.

I’m not so sure about whether we are still “supposed to do it” that way, though – a drawing must be clear, un-ambiguous and complete. (I’m not interpreting the ‘complete’ as a requirement to show all holes in all views, for this example)

The OP said “I need to jam as many features into one section view as possible” and other people, quite rightly, asked whether this is really necessary.

I prefer to draw as little as possible, using a minimum number of views, whilst still maintaining the essential requirements of a drawing. This makes for clearer, easier to understand and less ominous drawings.

Whilst it would be nice to have the ability to create section views that can show circular patterns of holes, spokes, ribs, etc. (which are not true projections) in the way you shown in your example (and we can still do it quite easily in AutoCAD) for anyone who feels the need to document them in the good old fashion way, I have the feeling that it could be a long time waiting for such capability in Inventor, due to the large variety of parts with such patterns.

In the example below, I show a situation where I would not want to show all holes in a section view, simply because it is un-necessary and it will make the view very clattered.

And, whilst we’re discussing that very long ‘Inventor Wish-list’, I wish we had that Hole/Thread note leader behave like a proper leader – it even shows like a normal leader when hovering over the button - but no dice, we still have to put up with the straight single line leader which places the text at a mighty ugly angle most of the time. After all these years… come on Autodesk, you can do it!

Edited by request
Discussion_Admin

Re: Section through multiple PCD holes

Anonymous — Thu, 21 Jul 2016 14:02:41 GMT

I was able to do this. Don't know why it worked this time as I have tried and failed in the past.

Re: Section through multiple PCD holes

dan_inv09 — Thu, 21 Jul 2016 14:07:07 GMT

What version of Inventor are you using?

Re: Section through multiple PCD holes

Anonymous — Thu, 21 Jul 2016 14:07:09 GMT

That works great on one set of holes. I often have 5, 6, or 7 or more sets of holes and it seems silly to have to do all of those views just to show a simple hole. Machinists like uncluttered drawings but they also don't like to have to jump from one view to another to find information that could easily be in one or two views. Inventor and Solidworks are great but they shure have made for some lazy, sloppy looking drawings.

Re: Section through multiple PCD holes

Anonymous — Thu, 21 Jul 2016 14:08:30 GMT

2015

Re: Section through multiple PCD holes

dan_inv09 — Thu, 21 Jul 2016 15:02:10 GMT

If your part kind of has sort of round features then it doesn't make sense to do it that way, but if most of your parts are mostly round ...

etc., etc.

(and the hole note leaders - that's your dimension style, you can change it any time you want)

Re: Section through multiple PCD holes

dan_inv09 — Thu, 21 Jul 2016 15:26:21 GMT

I think it is working. It wasn't earlier - everything I tried gave me "no valid section line" (or something like that, I'm not sure because I can't get it to give me that now)

Now we just need to figure out what makes it work:

It didn't work this last time I tried creating a section line with the view then editing it (it only kept the original part of the line and ignored all the lines I drew later)

It worked when I constructed the line first

It worked the first time I tried today when I constructed a line of straight segments then went back after creating the view and replacing some segments with concentric arcs.

(I guess I'm just so jaded that I don't pay attention to the "What's New" announcements and I missed when they added this (the true projection of ribs and spokes we can live with for now))

Re: Section through multiple PCD holes

Anonymous — Thu, 21 Jul 2016 15:44:00 GMT

I am usually able to find solutions to annoying problems with Inventor. I will not make "fake" models to do what I want though. My boss will not accept "Inventor just doesn't like to do that". If I can't make proper drawings, he will have me back in AutoCAD where you can do anything you need to in order to make it right. If I couldn't do it in AutoCAD, he would have me on a drafting board with a pencil. I lobbied hard for Inventor and I have serious problems making drawings that are consistent with 30 years of company standards, common sense and proper drafting practice. After three years on Inventor, I think it has some awesome capabilities but I have not found it to be a time saver and the frustration factor can be through the roof. I spend 2 hours making a model and the next 2 days trying to figure out how to fillet it. Just venting a little.

Re: Section through multiple PCD holes

Daniel248 — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 12:05:15 GMT

@dan_inv09 wrote:

....

(and the hole note leaders - that's your dimension style, you can change it any time you want)

I stand corrected on my issue with the leaders - thanks for pointing that out.

That's so much better!

Edited by request
Discussion_Admin

Re: Section through multiple PCD holes

dan_inv09 — Thu, 21 Jul 2016 16:07:14 GMT

It would be the same as in AutoCAD, just instead of drawing a separate view you're making a separate model for the view.

But that doesn't matter, we think we can do it: making the section line in a sketch before creating the section view seems to work. What version of Inventor are you on?

(Acceptance seems to be the big tipping point. On the one hand there is "the software can't do it - Why would you want to do that?" and on the other there's "30 years of drawing standards". What would the world be like if CAD operators these days had to be capable of using the drafting board?!?)

Re: Section through multiple PCD holes

Anonymous — Thu, 21 Jul 2016 16:20:49 GMT

We sound old.

Re: Section through multiple PCD holes

Curtis_Waguespack — Thu, 21 Jul 2016 16:45:42 GMT

@dan_inv09 wrote:

What would the world be like if CAD operators these days had to be capable of using the drafting board?!?)

I only speak for myself, but I know there would be a pile of ugly, smudged, incoherent drawings with dozens of revisions at some company that I formally worked at, and I would be "head french-fry cook" at the taco bell. I was horrible at board drafting.

Often times in looking at the "we used to do it this way" issues, we need to stop and ask why we did it that way, and then consider updating the company standard, to based on the tools and processes of the current time.

Some examples:

Why ALL CAPS in board drafting and AutoCAD?

In board drafting it allowed different people to letter the same drawing, and have it look consistent. And then that got carried into AutoCAD, even though the computer and program allowed different people to letter consistently. Most people can read sentence case better than ALL CAPS though. So in Inventor does that rule still need to be followed? Some say yes, some say no.

Why "Never double dimension anything!" in Inventor?

In board drafting and AutoCAD dimensions didn't update in View one, if we made a change in View two, so the rule was do not dimension in both, or you risk that it might get changed in one place and not the other. In Inventor does that rule still need to be followed? Some say yes, some say no.

Generally speaking, on these types of questions, I don't have a strong opinion, so long as there is a commitment within the company (and / or industry) to do it consistently.