topic Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches? in Inventor Forum

Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

Anonymous — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 16:42:51 GMT

Why does Inventor have so many glitches? I've been using the program for approx 15 years, 8 to 9 hours a day (always with the most current version). Over that span of time, the program seems riddled with problems about 5 to 10 percent of the time. Every year at release time, the program crashes repeatedly. I currently have 32GB of Ram which should allow the program to do some temporary backup/save and some error handling, BUT NO, it just crashes and leaves the screen. This release, the IDW is NOT Updating changes made to IPT and IAM parts. The horizontal and vertical constraints are reversed about 50% of the time in the last 2 years. There are other numerous glitches which will go unspecified here.

When I see users on the forum voice these type of opinions, it is often insinuated that the user is the problem or that the issue is an isolated incident (so far out of main stream and no one else is experiencing any problems). These types of programs are powerful and can be fun to use when they are working. My hats off to the programmers for those good times, but WHY, oh why can't the program be fixed? I'm assuming when Inventor abandoned VBA years ago that the entire program was revamped from the ground up, but the same problems keep showing up with every release.

Dave

Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

Curtis_W — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 17:13:51 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

I'm assuming when Inventor abandoned VBA years ago that the entire program was revamped from the ground up...

Hi ddavies,

Firstly, you can still use VBA with Inventor.

Secondly, Inventor is not written in VBA and was not revamped from the ground up in any language as far as I know.

Third, if you want to provide feedback, a great way to do so is to join the beta program and get your feedback to the developers as they are working on the latest release (rather than providing here or elsewhere once the new version is released).

Fourth, there are of course some issues that are just bugs, but for the most part, if you can provide files that demonstrate the issue, video captures, screen captures, etc. then many of the issues can be resolved.

So when people do not post in specifics and just voice frustration, those posts are indeed generally dismissed as "that user's problem".

Most use Inventor quite successfully and deal with "glitches" in the application and in workflows in stride, without these things accumulating to the point that we feel that Inventor is too glitchy to use.

@Anonymous wrote:

This release, the IDW is NOT Updating changes made to IPT and IAM parts. The horizontal and vertical constraints are reversed about 50% of the time in the last 2 years. There are other numerous glitches which will go unspecified here.

Hard to guess what the IDW issue might be without specifics.

I don't know of anything that has changed with horizontal and vertical sketch constraints in the last 2 year (maybe I missed something). Keep in mind the horizontal and vertical sketch constraints are related to the coordinate system not the view on screen.

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com

Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Jan 2017 14:54:56 GMT

The elephant in the room is the constant crashing of the program over a decade. What beta testing will solve this. I was wrong to assume the program was revamped BUT maybe IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN. My VBA automation survived several upgrades but eventually was killed. I was told on this forum that VBA was obsolete and had been replaced (with a code unfamiliar to me). But the topic here is the core INV program. There are users out here. We cannot see inside the Autodesk organization. We assume Autodesk does not grow grapes, manufacture motorcars or sell seldge hammers. We assume that Autodesk is in the CAD software business; that Autodesk WOULD BE working on programming, solving issues; carving, shaping and perfecting it's product. Curtis, you are a conpensated "expert". You may know what the problem is, but you're not allowed to say. Maybe there is a software director who is a great leader of people but a person of poor protocol and structure. Someone who has a great engineering mind but lacks common sense. Again, the elephant in the room is the INV program that WILL NOT BE FIXED. You have many users out here for over a decade, that have loads of RAM, who are practical and seasoned users, who have come to this forum for answers, who DO NOT understand WHY, WHY ... WHY this program WILL NOT BE FIXED (cannot have proper error handling protocol to survive a crash). After dozens of upgrades (and patches x3), why not?

About 7 years ago, our department decided to convert to Solidworks. Our IT Department was advised and the sky fell. It turns out there is a clean-up crew in the Autodesk organization. Our IT department head was coddled and swooned by an agent(s) of Autodesk not to make such a 'foolish' decision. In addition to the fear tactic, we were told that in our part of the country, we were a leader in the use of their product and that keeping us happy was very important to them. Curtis, though your demeaner is certainly not in the category of coddling or swooning, you are part of the clean-up crew (on the PR side) keeping the forum tidy. But if a user is busy, (as we always are) the user gives up and doesn't have time or resources to assert his position for satisfaction. Mainly, it's pointless, because in the end, there is always an elephant in the room. The program will not be fixed. It will be cleaned and polished by various crews, but it will not be fixed.
So far, In the initial post I have taken my hat off to programmers and praised the sophistication of the program when it is working, but this is my last chance to send a plea to the organization to do something different, to make the difficult lives of Engineers, smoother and less frustrating, to have software do what software should do. Please do not send in the crew. Fix the program.

Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

Curtis_W — Thu, 12 Jan 2017 15:36:15 GMT

ddavies wrote:

Curtis, you are a conpensated "expert".

I am?

Apparently, somebody has been holding out on me then. I guess I better get on the horn and figure out where all of this compensation is, maybe I can take the rest of the week off!

ddavies wrote:

You may know what the problem is, but you're not allowed to say.

I don't think I know anything more the anyone else concerning "the problem". We use Inventor very successfully, as do many other companies. Is it perfect, certainly not. Have a look through the Idea forum and feel free to add your own idea posts if you have specific things that you'd like to see addressed:
http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/Inventor-IdeaStation/idb-p/v1232

ddavies wrote:

Curtis, ... you are part of the clean-up crew (on the PR side) keeping the forum tidy.

I'm a user of the product, that has simply been recognized by the forum community staff at Autodesk for providing helpful support to other users, nothing more. I am not responsible or even encouraged to do any "PR" or "clean-up" concerning these forums. I am not an Autodesk employee, minion or crew member. I do have a ball cap that says 'Autodesk' on it that I wear around that house to do chores though.

ddavies wrote:

So far, In the initial post I have taken my hat off to programmers and praised the sophistication of the program when it is working, but this is my last chance to send a plea to the organization to do something different, to make the difficult lives of Engineers, smoother and less frustrating, to have software do what software should do. Please do not send in the crew. Fix the program.

Last chance? You're not on a ledge at the moment are you? If so, please don't jump. Just climb back through the window, start a new post and provide details about specific issues you're experiencing and leave the frustration aside, and I suspect someone will be able to help resolve those issues. If you're not able or willing to take on technical issues by providing technical information, I'm not willing or able to provide any assistance, and will move on to other posts on the forum. But others might be happy to continue the debate.

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com

Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

mcgyvr — Thu, 12 Jan 2017 15:36:05 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

This release, the IDW is NOT Updating changes made to IPT and IAM parts. The horizontal and vertical constraints are reversed about 50% of the time in the last 2 years. There are other numerous glitches which will go unspecified here.

Dave

Dave, Would you actually like your post to be useful or would you like to be thrown into the pit of "ranting users" just complaining to complain?

If so at the very least please provide a sample idw (and necessary parts) that shows the issue of not updating so that issue can be corrected/addressed..

If so please provide more information on what you mean that horizontal/vertical constraints are reversed about 50% of the time..

If so please specify some more information about the other glitches..

Please include the steps you took/take to reproduce that issue over and over again..

If not.. Well... Then all you have written is just useless and a waste of time for everyone..

Software will ALWAYS have some issues.. Its written by humans.. We have issues and are not perfect..

But to just say the program is glitchy and isn't fixed is just a waste of time..

I have NO problems with horiz/very constraints..

I have NO problems with IDW's not updating..

I have NO problems with repeated crashes (except for 1 bug I found this year and was able to calmly contact Autodesk, provide sufficient details/steps/videos showing the issue and they were able to reproduce the issue and its marked to be corrected in a future update.. )

We all get frustrated.. But just ranting is NOT solving anything..

Would you like an e-hug maybe? I'll send a nice greeting card if you would like..

But please help if you want it fixed/addressed as best as possible...

Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

Anonymous — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 15:18:50 GMT

The pit of ranting users is fine. If you could solve these problems, granted, I guess you would have. Maybe these cannot be solved with current resources.

I knew I would be marginalized. [Then all you have written is just useless and a waste of time for everyone..]

I have attached a supposed series of screenshots demonstrating how the vertical and horizontal constraints are confused. I click the view cube to isometric default, open a sketch with existing lines, click the vertical constraint and hold it against a vertical line and a preview horizontal line appears. The cursor is not visible in the screenshot but you can use your imagination. This would seem to be what we call a 'no brainer'. Everyone knows vert and horiz and the program should too. This is one of hundreds of glitches. But I'm almost sorry for mentioning it.

Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

mcgyvr — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 15:35:53 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

The pit of ranting users is fine. If you could solve these problems, granted, I guess you would have. Maybe these cannot be solved with current resources.

I knew I would be marginalized. [Then all you have written is just useless and a waste of time for everyone..]

I have attached a supposed series of screenshots demonstrating how the vertical and horizontal constraints are confused. I click the view cube to isometric default, open a sketch with existing lines, click the vertical constraint and hold it against a vertical line and a preview horizontal line appears. The cursor is not visible in the screenshot but you can use your imagination. This would seem to be what we call a 'no brainer'. Everyone knows vert and horiz and the program should too. This is one of hundreds of glitches. But I'm almost sorry for mentioning it.

Thats not a glitch..

Its the way it was designed and it does make some sense when you think about it one way.. There has been some talk lately of changing the way it works or including a toggle to quickly switch between the 2.. But..in that talk.. One user wanted it one way.. one the other,etc..

There was talk of it being relative to how the user is looking at his monitor (which I believe its your thought).. Horizontal would always be horizontal, vertical would always be vertical from the users perspective.. Or its tied to view cube and a few other options..

Now its based on UCS direction so yes.. sometimes horizontal is vertical but it does make sense when you know why its doing what its doing..

I do agree that it could be "better".. But its NOT a glitch.. Its as designed and when it was designed it was the way that was agreed upon to function that way..

Again.. we are humans with opinions and thats how it works.. Just because you think its right (or wrong) does NOT make it right (or wrong) across the board.. "Common Sense" to you may not be "common sense" to me..

Thank you though for actually letting the questions/issues out of the bag and mentioning it.. Through discussion/examples,etc.. thats how stuff gets addressed/communicated,etc.. Just ranting though is not helping so again.. thanks for calming down some and getting to the details..

The ideastation is a great way to communicate these issues too.. Its a place where users like yourself can post these "ideas for improvement" and users like myself can give "kudos" to that idea to show Autodesk that others feel the same way.. You would be amazed by what one person thinks is the way it should work and other will be totally different.. There are many ideas that I think are absolutely ridiculous and not how it should work.. But others do..

Autodesk does actively monitor and implement "ideas" from others on how they software should work,etc..

Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

mcgyvr — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 15:39:08 GMT

And here.. you are not alone..

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-ideas/add-ctrl-behavior-to-horizontal-and-vertical-sketch-constraint/idi-p/5112632

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/forums/searchpage/tab/message?filter=location&location=idea-board%3Av1232&q=horizontal+constraint

Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

Anonymous — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 19:22:33 GMT

Now I understand where you are coming from. Maybe the attachment says it all.

Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

mcgyvr — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 19:37:09 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Now I understand where you are coming from. Maybe the attachment says it all.

Maybe the UCS part caused the confusion..

One can position the view cube anywhere they want and change it all over the place.. Its the Origin XYZ axis thats being used for the logic here..

Try your experiment again and pay close attention to the Origin 3d Indicator

This guy below.. Make sure you do some orbiting around as you are doing so..

This is how that functionality was designed to be relative to.

It does make sense..

And cute graphic.. I do enjoy some good humor..

But I think your time would have been better spent providing a sample of a drawing where its not updating for you so we could knock that one out too..

Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

Curtis_W — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 20:02:32 GMT

Hi ddavies,

Autodesk allows us to re-define the view cube faces. But the co-ordinate system is a known constant to the application. I don't think the sketch constraint solver can use the view cube to determine the horizontal and vertical constraints because the user can redefine the view cube faces at any time.

I think if that were allowed, we could start off a sketch, apply horizontal/vertical constraints, and then adjust the view cube, and the constraint solver would then be backwards.

I mentioned that this is how the horizontal and vertical sketch constraints worked in my very first post.

Really the solution to this issue, is a simple toggle so that when we choose horizontal, and start to apply it and see the little dotted preview, we could then just toggle it quickly and move forward.

I do this currently with keyboard shortcuts for the vertical and horizontal constraints now, so that when I see that I clicked the wrong one (because I wasn't watching the coordinate triad) I just use the keyboard to switch. I is assigned to Vertical by default and I just use K for Horizontal because it's close on the keyboard. See video

But an out of the box solution would be preferred, and you can see from the Idea forum post that mcgyvr posted, this improvement idea has been accepted by the development team as something that will be implemented.

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com

Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

Anonymous — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 21:01:02 GMT

So I should redirect the orientation? . . . because Autodesk feels that the default should be illogical and backwards?

Let Autodesk fix it themselves. Statistically speaking, for every soldier (like me) that comes into the forum foxhole, there are a hundred more that are having the problem but do not bother to write in the forum. Although sometimes, I feel my company is the only one still using Autodesk. I wonder if other companies don't just move-on (like we tried to do years ago).

Attached is definitely the illogical default as on my workstation (Just to be clear).

Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

mcgyvr — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 21:18:13 GMT

@Anonymous

D.. Something is wrong there.. No wonder your panties are in such a bunch..

Please open the attached file..edit sketch 3 and show a picture of applying a horizontal constrain to those 2 sketch points..

Mine is "correct" to your world..

I'm trying to see what settings I can goof up or whatever to achieve that result..

You might also want to try a default out of the box part template and see if it changes..

Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

Anonymous — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 21:37:43 GMT

Nope, what I am showing is the default. I have been experiencing the vertical horizontal screwup for several years with each new release. You are making some panty comment because I am clearly asserting my position and because you didn't like that I am blown out of the water by your comment below.

(mcgyvr wrote: Thats not a glitch.. One user wanted it one way.. one the other,etc.. "Common Sense" to you may not be "common sense" to me..)

Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

ChrisMitchell01 — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 22:14:17 GMT

Dave,

Regarding your comments about crashes; I took a look at the CER's you sent in. Some were caused by your graphics driver; could you try updating to the most recent driver version to see if that improves your general stability.

You also seem to have found a reproducible case to cause a crash by re-scaling an ISO view. I couldn't reproduce that - could you please let me know the exact steps you perform & perhaps send me a simple data set so that we can investigate ? (chris.mitchell@autodesk.com)

Thanks

Chris

Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

Curtis_W — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 22:20:02 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

So I should redirect the orientation? . . . because Autodesk feels that the default should be illogical and backwards?

Hi ddavies,

So you're original statement of the problem was a spare on details. My assumption was that you were complaining about the horizontal and vertical not matching what you perceived to be Up/Down Left/Right based on your current view orientation based on the view cube face names.

It seems with further details provided you're saying that the template is simply in thewrong orientation? (see how more details and less about how unfair the world is, aids in communication )

Try starting a new file using this method:

Hold CTRL + SHIFT and click the new button, you'll be presented with a generic drop down from which you can choose "Part". This will give you a "fresh, clean" part template file based on Inventor's "hardcoded" defaults.

Using this new clean file do you see horizontal and vertical being off still? I do not.

Using our standard part template I do see them being "illogical" as you say , but that template has been customized & tweaked a lot, so I can't think of it as a good example. And I don't have any of the default templates on this machine at the moment.

In any case, I feel like we're finally starting to get a sense of what you're talking about, might actually be (although as I comb through this thread I still can't find that it's clearly stated still).

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com

Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

mcgyvr — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 22:55:41 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Nope, what I am showing is the default. I have been experiencing the vertical horizontal screwup for several years with each new release. You are making some panty comment because I am clearly asserting my position and because you didn't like that I am blown out of the water by your comment below.

(mcgyvr wrote: Thats not a glitch.. One user wanted it one way.. one the other,etc.. "Common Sense" to you may not be "common sense" to me..)

Is that a nope that when you open the file I attached its still "wrong" and not like the image I showed?

As you can see in that image the horizontal constraint is horizontal (different from yours)... So mine is working the way you think it should..

In an attempt to help I'm hoping that we can narrow this down to some setting or a "tweaked" part template..

If you see horizontal as horizontal just like my image shows when you open the simple file I provided then there is something "off" with your template..

And relax there.. I'm trying to actually help you get this sorted out (and Curtis is and now even Chris who actually works at Autodesk).. And maybe we all do find a bug/glitch with you so that it can get fixed.

Like Curtis mentioned we are finally getting some needed details here and can see why you are asserting your position (finally in a much more useful way).. The details/images/communication is good..

Lets continue.. Please see if the file I provided shows the same issue and lets continue working on this.. And Curtis has a good suggestion there too to use the unmolested Autodesk templates...

Like Curtis also mentioned up until you just posted that image I was under the same impression as him as to your complaints.. The picture was worth 1000 words..

Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

johnsonshiue — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 23:01:02 GMT

Hi D David,

I think I understand your concern regarding the vertical and horizontal orientation. If I am not mistaken, you probably prefer having Z-axis pointing up in an Isometric view. If yes, could you do an experiment for me? Start a new part (select Metric -> Standard (DIN).ipt). Make all origin planes visible. Now try to create sketches on XY, YZ, and XZ. Is the vertical and horizontal aligned with your expectation?

There is a way to change your template file to behave like Standard (DIN).ipt. I will show you how to do that later.

Many thanks!

Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

mcgyvr — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 00:06:53 GMT

@johnsonshiue wrote:

Hi D David,

I think I understand your concern regarding the vertical and horizontal orientation. If I am not mistaken, you probably prefer having Z-axis pointing up in an Isometric view. If yes, could you do an experiment for me? Start a new part (select Metric -> Standard (DIN).ipt). Make all origin planes visible. Now try to create sketches on XY, YZ, and XZ. Is the vertical and horizontal aligned with your expectation?

There is a way to change your template file to behave like Standard (DIN).ipt. I will show you how to do that later.

Many thanks!

@johnsonshiue Johnson... I don't think thats the issue here (could be I guess.. or another nuance about the different templates).. Look at the image posted in post #12.. note the direction of Z and that he has vertical constrain selected but its showing horizontally (running parallel with Z axis)..

Then look at the image I posted in post #13.. Note the same Z direction.. same sketch on the side.. Yet I have horizontal constraint selected and mine is actually showing horizontal (parallel with z axis)..

So same setup yet their vertical constraint is horizontal but my horizontal constraint is also horizontal.. Why the difference?

Re: Why does Inventor have so many glitches?

Curtis_W — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 00:35:33 GMT

@mcgyvr wrote:

Johnson... I don't think thats the issue here ...

Hi mcgyvr,

Firstly you should know better than to doubt johnsonshiue on anything relating to deep dark nether regions of Inventor

Secondly, I think he's on to something. I just searched my machine and found the standard templates under the default install location (forgot those were still there) and located the Standard (DIN).ipt

It has the same behavior for the horizontal and vertical constraints that I see when starting a new file using the SHIFT + CTRL + NEW to get a "fresh clean" template.

If I recall correctly there is something different about the co-ordinate systems for some of the templates. We see this when comparing some (all?) of the inch vs metric templates I think.

see video

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com