topic Re: circular washer vs plain washer in Inventor Forum

circular washer vs plain washer

msklein — Mon, 20 Feb 2017 15:34:09 GMT

In the days before parametric modeling, on the board or ACAD flat washers were easy. since 3D modeling particularly IV hardware has become a pain to specify. Today's question is whats the difference between circular washers and plain washers, not getting anything from google and i don't have either my machinery's or my american machinist hand books with me right to look up to see if they list anything. This is more of an educational question than anything else.

thanks

msk

Re: circular washer vs plain washer

mcgyvr — Mon, 20 Feb 2017 16:10:22 GMT

A flat washer may be a circular washer.. (if its round)..

Its just normal English terms.. Circular = circle.. flat = flat..

Been that way before "CAD".. Nothing has changed..

Neither "circular" nor "flat" is sufficient to properly specify a washer..

Re: circular washer vs plain washer

msklein — Mon, 20 Feb 2017 17:34:52 GMT

My point exactly. But both types of washer is listed in the Content Center, thus the question. And i know not what would make them different as you stated they are both circular and flat.Content Center descriptions are not the most helpful, if they they had put the metric in just a metric folder not requiring us to turn on filters to do that it might help some, making selections a bit easier thus reducing the selection clutter.

msk

Re: circular washer vs plain washer

mcgyvr — Mon, 20 Feb 2017 17:39:36 GMT

@msklein wrote:

My point exactly. But both types of washer is listed in the Content Center, thus the question. And i know not what would make them different as you stated they are both circular and flat.Content Center discriptions are not the most helpfull, if they they had put the metric in just a metric folder not requiring us to turn on filters to do that it might help some, making selections a bit easyer.

msk

Content center should not be relied upon/taken as word either..

Its just a "generic" start to give people some "generic" stuff to go off of..

I don't use it but suspect its just how it was setup by 2 different programmers or whatever..

One called it a plain washer.. one called it a circular washer.. one called it flat washer.

There are lots of functions in Inventor that you can tell were done by different programmers and their preference too..

Sometimes its "OK".. Other times its "Cancel",etc... Other software is the same too..

From what I've seen there are lots of little issues like that over the years with content center..

There are lots of standards that washers apply to also that can/do make them different.. SAE vs ASME,etc.. which can be different OD/ID/Thickness,etc..

The point I guess I want to make is don't rely on the content center as a source of proper Engineering/Design knowledge.. That would be foolish..

Its got mistakes/omissions,etc... Its not nearly complete/all inclusive..

FWIW.. I use mcmaster.com as a starting point for fastener selection/pricing,etc... Then proper Engineering judgement from there..

And IF I was using content center then I would find one that matched what I properly specified..

Re: circular washer vs plain washer

msklein — Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:11:00 GMT

I normally start with my TAD Screw calculator for generic hardware, then go to my machinery's handbook for detailed info. Master Carr only to see if they have a part number for it and that it's in stock.

Re: circular washer vs plain washer

Curtis_W — Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:12:21 GMT

@msklein wrote:

...since 3D modeling particularly IV hardware ...

Hi msklein,

I find that the plain washers go better with dip, and on salads, and they contain fewer calories.

Actually, I think mcgyvr is likely correct in that it is just a misalignment of terms that Autodesk introduced by naming those CC libraries differently.

I'm curious, have you seen this in other 3D CAD programs as well, or just Inventor?

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com

Re: circular washer vs plain washer

msklein — Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:41:43 GMT

Only other system iv'e used was SDRC and it's been way too many years to remember what they had. And i've only played with Solid works and Solid edge when i was converting files in IV. So i never paid any attention to their hardware libraries.

Re: circular washer vs plain washer

blair — Mon, 20 Feb 2017 22:05:06 GMT

Sometimes I think it depends what side of the ocean you reside on. Over the years ADSK has bought a number of companies from around the world, some were US based and some have been European based. So it would depend if you keep your golf clubs in the trunk, or in the boot of your car or auto as to where you use circular or plain washers.

Being raised and located in Canada and having grown up with both the BBC as well as CBS, NBC and ABC and having to deal with a province that put cheese curds in their gravy over French Fries, I really don't care.

Re: circular washer vs plain washer

msklein — Mon, 20 Feb 2017 22:19:34 GMT

Only thing is the content center screws, washers and nuts have been their sense at least release 5 don't remember release 3 and i skipped 4. Yea i'm a almost old as dirt

Re: circular washer vs plain washer

SBix26 — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 00:59:18 GMT

Even though those washers are all under the ANSI library in the Content Center, the actual standards come from ASTM (American Society for Testing and Materials), SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers), ANSI/ASME (American National Standards Institute/American Society of Mechanical Engineers) and IFI (Industrial Fasteners Institute). My guess is that the terminology comes directly from the applicable standards.

Sam B

Inventor Professional 2017.3.1
Vault Workgroup 2017.0.1
Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit, SP1
Inventor Certified Professional

Re: circular washer vs plain washer

msklein — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 15:57:03 GMT

If that was the case then shouldn't something have popped up when i did a search in Google by description? I am going to take a look under ASTM to see if anything pops up, but not expecting anything as i said nothing from other search.

Re: circular washer vs plain washer

mcgyvr — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 16:02:42 GMT

@msklein wrote:

If that was the case then shouldn't something have popped up when i did a search in Google by description? I am going to take a look under ASTM to see if anything pops up, but not expecting anything as i said nothing from other search.

It does

ASME B18.21.1 refers to them as "plain" washers

SAE J2655 refers to them as "flat" washers

ASTM refers to them as "circular" washers..

Re: circular washer vs plain washer

blair — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 16:05:44 GMT

Like I said, it just depends what side of the pond you are from and how old of a book/schooling you have or where you received your schooling.

Re: circular washer vs plain washer

dgorsman — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 16:38:29 GMT

I've found Google isn't very reliable for searching on technical standards, and usually only in a general sense. You need access to Techstreet, IHS, or the organization's own library to directly search the standards.

Re: circular washer vs plain washer

msklein — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 17:36:31 GMT

Well i'm on the Texas side of the pond (got tired of Silicon Valley), Graduated in the late 70's Machinery's handbook is around 19th - 20th edition. But i don't have access to it right now. Didn't pack it for this short term job. Oil/Gas and Semiconductor industries look like they are starting to pick up so maybe i can find a direct job soon, as i'm starting to see calls for resume.

msk

Re: circular washer vs plain washer

blair — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 18:04:05 GMT

An "Oil Patch" guy, more "slang" terminology used there than in the logging industry where I reside. I honestly think that a lot of the terms go back to where the standards were originally written and in which time in the evolution of the English language.

Re: circular washer vs plain washer

msklein — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 18:22:35 GMT

Na, actually more of a High Tech guy. Semiconductor Capital Equip., Disk drives Capital Equip., Satellites, Medical Equipment, Fighter Plane Black Boxes, Some Bottling Plant Conveyor Lines. Did mostly Rack mounted Rugidized File Servers for Oil, Military and Where houses,a couple of Logging tools, a refurbish to a Battery Rail Yard Switcher from Diesel.

Re: circular washer vs plain washer

dgorsman — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 18:31:19 GMT

@msklein wrote:

... Where houses ...

Sounds like some archive facilities.

Re: circular washer vs plain washer

msklein — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 19:14:50 GMT

Ok, warehouse. Now you see why i go on rants about the lack of a spellchecker in IV. And yea that's a grammar mistake. Rushing to go to lunch.

Re: circular washer vs plain washer

jporter — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 19:44:07 GMT

From a practical standpoint, "plain" Inventor washers (type A-Narrow) are the common washers you would buy at your hardware store. "Circular" washers equate more with an SAE washer I get at fastenal when I want a washer that is narrower and thicker. If you use inventor "circular" washers, you certainly can end up with washers hitting the adjacent assembly when someone builds it with "common, hardware store" washers.