topic Re: Create moving parts while retaining projected geometry in Inventor Forum

Create moving parts while retaining projected geometry

Anonymous — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:45:48 GMT

I don't know if what I want to do is possible, but I though I should ask to see if there is a way.

Projecting geometry in sketches is a fast and powerful way to make adaptive parts: e.g. Part B is built from an offset dimension of Part A.

However often I want these inter-referenced parts to maintain their links AND have motion. It seems there should be a way to maintain references relative to the parts "home position", but still create a joint (e.g. a slide) to see it behave in motion without breaking the adaptive links... then return to "home" for editing the assembly all references intact.

Is there a way to do this, or something similar?

Thx,

Troy

Re: Create moving parts while retaining projected geometry

JDMather — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 19:01:04 GMT

Can you use multi-body solids or Derived Components instead?

Re: Create moving parts while retaining projected geometry

jtylerbc — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 20:02:52 GMT

If for some reason you can't do the multi-body technique JD mentioned, another option would be to have multiple copies of the part in your assembly (one in the fixed "Home" position, and one movable). The fixed one would have the Adaptivity, and the moving one would just be an additional instance of the same part.

Setting one of the parts as Reference or Phantom in the BOM will keep it from displaying a doubled quantity in your drawing's parts list, and you can use Visibility and View Representations to make sure it isn't displayed in multiple positions at the same time.

It's a little messier than multi-body would be, but if you're too far along in your project to change your overall modeling strategy, I think it would get you what you need.

Re: Create moving parts while retaining projected geometry

kelly.young — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 20:55:17 GMT

@Anonymous I see that you are visiting as a new member to the Inventor Forum.
Welcome to the Autodesk Community!

Here is a bit more information on derived parts. If you are having difficulty with adaptive parts and motion I would suggest trying this route and seeing if it works better for you. Do you have a simple example you could share as to what you are trying to accomplish?

About Derived Parts and Assemblies

Modeling Techniques in Inventor

Re: Create moving parts while retaining projected geometry

swalton — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:00:41 GMT

I don't use adaptive parts often.

Do Position Representations trigger an update to the adaptive geometry? If not, you could make a new position rep and update/suppress constraints as required to move your components in the parent assembly.

Re: Create moving parts while retaining projected geometry

Curtis_W — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:08:30 GMT

Hi troyJNA3R,

Here are a couple of (older) videos that show how to create a multi-body part with interrelated parts, and then "write" them out to an assembly using the Make Components tool, where they can be constrained for motion.

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com

p.s. Sorry about the crazy music, these videos were originally created for another purpose without sound, and then music was added later on youtube because people kept thinking there were having audio problems because of the lack of sound.

Re: Create moving parts while retaining projected geometry

johnsonshiue — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:21:48 GMT

Hi! I am sorry I have hard time visualizing what you want to do. There are two ways to establish cross part geometric relationship: Adaptive vs Derive. The former is an in context concept meaning the given part is defined in the context of an assembly. Its definition is only meaningful in such context. Derive on the other hand is like you build the skeletal geometry (sketch or body) within a part. This particular part drives other components, which may or may not reside in the same assembly.

I think JD is right. If a global origin is required, you might need to use Derive (sketch or body).

Many thanks!

Re: Create moving parts while retaining projected geometry

Anonymous — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:48:19 GMT

Thanks for all of the suggestions.

I used inventor back in the day (15 years ago), and now I remember the derive approach (I don't think project geometry was available back then).

I wish however there was a fast automatic way to derive ("project derived"), similar to project geometry. It takes several more steps to use derive than project (share sketch, derive sketch, adjust sketch).

One more question: Projecting is nice cause everything is left in place, but unusable without breaking the links to make moving constrained parts. However, when I used derived, the derived part is placed in the new part in a "random" orientation... not in place. Anyway to get the derived part to shadow the original part position?

Thx

Troy

Re: Create moving parts while retaining projected geometry

johnsonshiue — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:58:25 GMT

Hi Troy,

There are quite a few improvements in Derive workflow since you used last time. You can build multiple solid bodies within a part. Each body can represent a part. Once you are done with the master part, you can push individual bodies as parts in an assembly via Make Components command. You don't need to derive them one by one. It is fully automated. If you just want to derive one part, you can use Make Part command to push the geometry to a derived part. You can find related videos at Autodesk Knowledge Network. Here is a link to Make Components.

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/search?p=INVENTORPRODUCTS&search=Make%20components&sort=score&page=1&knowledgeSource=Screencast

Try it out and let us know how we can help you further.

Many thanks!

Re: Create moving parts while retaining projected geometry

kelly.young — Tue, 29 Aug 2017 00:44:34 GMT

@Anonymous looks like you were flooded with a lot of great information, take some time to sift through them. If you found an answer to your question please select Accept as Solution so other users may benefit. When you have another troubling thought, start a new topic for your next inquiry to be solved!

Re: Create moving parts while retaining projected geometry

JDMather — Tue, 29 Aug 2017 11:44:43 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

.... Anyway to get the derived part to shadow the original part position?

Troy

Can you accomplish some of the design - using whatever techniques you currently know - and then attach you work here.

I suspect that there are some really easy new techniques that have been developed that will solve your issues.

Re: Create moving parts while retaining projected geometry

lmc.engineering — Tue, 29 Aug 2017 16:16:14 GMT

Lots of great suggestions in here.

It's tricky to know what method to use without seeing the files, however, a good method for kinematics with cross part adaptivity is to use a mix of sketch blocks and derived components from those sketch blocks. Sketch blocks can be used to display the motion in a 2D format, allowing you to 3D model the parts afterwards using derive. You can add all driving parameters and workplane to the origin part, then derive through references to the individual parts.

It's a tricky workflow to master, but well worth the effort.

Kind regards

Re: Create moving parts while retaining projected geometry

JDMather — Tue, 29 Aug 2017 16:32:56 GMT

@lmc.engineering wrote:

.... Sketch blocks can be used to display the motion in a 2D format, ...

It's a tricky workflow to master, but well worth the effort.

Kind regards

Sketch blocks can also be used to display 3D motion, even in a single part file, but the technique is even trickier.