topic Re: How can I make this Movement? in Inventor Forum

How can I make this Movement?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 16:04:53 GMT

Hello everyone!

I'm new to Inventor 2018 and I can not figure out how to make a certain movement.

I've attached a model of the AeroV2.iam test prototype to assist.

I need the Yellow "Base H" to rotate around the red "Eixo H" whenever the rotational speeds of the Red "Engrenagem Cônica V" and the pink "BevelGearRH:1" are of the same direction (spinning together) or when this component arises as it would in fact occur.

One of the final goal is to make an animation with the "Conduzir Eixo H", "Conduzir Direção EH" and this motion here that I can not do (Be: "Conduzir Base H" ?) all simultaneous for an actual working presentation.
Help here would also be much appreciated!

Does anyone have any ideas to give?
Every help is welcome.

Regards
GTI

Re: How can I make this Movement?

TheCADWhisperer — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 17:10:34 GMT

Can you attach Windows OS zip rather than 23rd party rar of the assembly?

Re: How can I make this Movement?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 18:05:34 GMT

Thanks for reply!

Of course, would this be it?

Re: How can I make this Movement?

TheCADWhisperer — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 19:38:10 GMT

Do you have information for the Pitch cones for the bevel gears?

Have you experimented with Rolling Cone-on-Cone joints?

Re: How can I make this Movement?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 20:16:45 GMT

@TheCADWhispererescreveu:
Do you have information for the Pitch cones for the bevel gears?

Excuse me, I'm starting.
What is "Pitch Cones"? The number of teeth?

@TheCADWhispererescreveu:
Have you experimented with Rolling Cone-on-Cone joints?

No, I did not find this Joint, I only tried joints/constraints, is it in dynamic simulation?

Re: How can I make this Movement?

johnsonshiue — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 20:41:12 GMT

Hi! There are a few places I would do differently. I change the motion constraint so that it allows the yellow part to rotate around. I grounded the blue base part and also added an angular constraint. Try using DriveMe constraint to drive. You will see the desirable movement.

Many thanks!

Re: How can I make this Movement?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 20:48:34 GMT

@TheCADWhispererescreveu:
Do you have information for the Pitch cones for the bevel gears?

I did a quick search here and if I understood correctly the "pitch cone angles" should be 45°, I have the pink bevel gear sketch, I can send it.

Also the red and pink bevel gears at the end of the red shaft near the blue rotating base should rotate together in the same direction and in the opposite direction.

Re: How can I make this Movement?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 21:25:25 GMT

Hi @johnsonshiue,

I thank you. Thanks for reply!

I do not know if I fully understand the working philosophy of Inventor, I rely on physical reality.

Ok, congratulations, you were very objective, I've seen the movement, but now we've lost all the other two moves that I also need, or I think I need to make a real working animation for presentation.

The blue base can not be fixed because the turning of this is that it will make the two bevel gears (Red and Pink) turn in the same direction, this test system is simplified for this. Imagine two more bevel gears fixed horizontally meshed with these Red and Pink.

Re: How can I make this Movement?

johnsonshiue — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 21:33:29 GMT

Hi! To truly simulate the movement, you need to do it in Dynamic Simulation. Inventor assembly constraint and drive only give you the ideal geometric relationship. It is definitely not real world. In real world, you cannot freely move any object due to the gravity.

Many thanks!

Re: How can I make this Movement?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 21:52:59 GMT

@johnsonshiue

Thanks again, this was very enlightening.

I need an animation to do a real working presentation.

Would it be possible to have these three movements that I need outside of Dynamic Simulation for an animation for a working presentation?

Would it be possible to make an animation for a working presentation within Dynamic Simulation?

Re: How can I make this Movement?

TheCADWhisperer — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 21:59:04 GMT

Dynamic Simulation can be Published to Inventor Studio environment.

Re: How can I make this Movement?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 22:28:03 GMT

@TheCADWhisperer

Great!

Even if it's a more complex way, at least there's a way to get what I need.

And within the Dynamic Simulation? Is it possible to have these three movements that I need simultaneously, that is, one does not prevent the other?

And outside Dynamic Simulation? Is it possible to have these three movements that I need simultaneously, that is, one does not prevent the other?

Re: How can I make this Movement?

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Apr 2018 21:27:28 GMT

@johnsonshiue, @TheCADWhisperer,

Well, yesterday, inspired by the constraint "Rotation: 8" created by johnsonshiue in "AeroV2 - Movimentos_fixed.zip" sent by him, I managed to solve the problem by accident, because since Inventor does not respond like in the real world and I do not know what rules it follows, it is almost impossible to predict the results. (see attached solution: AeroV2 - Movimentos_fixed_2.zip)

Here is the solution using old "AeroV2 - Movimentos_fixed.zip" sent by johnsonshiue:

* Unfixed "Base Giratória H".

* Suppressed Angle Constraint "DriveMe".

* Edited Motion Constraint "Rotation:8" to "Rotação:8".

* Inserted "Engrenagem Cônica H" and "BevelGearRV" for real motion simulation.

* Inserted Rotary Joints between "Engrenagem Cônica H" and "BevelGearRV" and inserted between "Engrenagem Cônica H" e "Base Giratória H".

* Inserted Rotational Motion Constraints between "Engrenagem Cônica H" and "BevelGearRV" and their pairs.

Driving "Conduzir Eixo H" we have one of the desired real movements and driving "Conduzir Direção EH" we have the other two real movements desired: Rotation of the yellow "Base H" resulting from the rotation in the same direction of the bevel gears "BevelGearRH:1" e "Engrenagem Cônica V".

In this last move there is still unreality in this test model here, but in my main model with the rest of the set worked better.

The movements can also be driven like the mouse.

It is still far from ideal, but it is the one who has for lunch today!

Re: How can I make this Movement?

TheCADWhisperer — Thu, 19 Apr 2018 22:56:52 GMT

@Anonymouswrote:
... because since Inventor ~~does not respond~~ like in the real world and I do not know what rules it follows, it is almost ~~impossible~~ to predict the results. (see attached solution: AeroV2 - Movimentos_fixed_2.zip)

@Anonymous

Inventor works exactly like the real world motion of assemblies and therefore is absolutely predictable.

Has your instructor covered DOF?

Has your instructor covered Dynamic Simulation Joints and the Input Grapher?

Re: How can I make this Movement?

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Apr 2018 03:07:12 GMT

@TheCADWhisperer,

Thank you for your interest!

I believe that you are right and that I'm wrong, and that is what I would like very much, but. . .
here, and in this thread, my instructors are you and johnsonshiue.

As johnsonshiue said yesterday:

@johnsonshiue wrote:
... Inventor assembly constraint and drive only give you the ideal geometric relationship. It is definitely not real world. In real world, you cannot freely move any object due to the gravity ...

You said today:

@TheCADWhispererescreveu:
... works exactly like the real world motion of assemblies ...

Your problem is with johnsonshiue not with me.

As several questions were asked of you whether these moves were possible outside the Dynamic Simulation and were not answered suggesting that you avoided saying one "no".

As two highly skilled people like you two were not able to make these simple realistic moves.

Since it is perfectly predictable and fully verifiable that Dynamic Simulation and DOF (Whatever it is) have not been used in this issue, it is obvious that what I have said relates to movements outside Dynamic Simulation and DOF.

So it's quite natural to deduce that what I said is true.

Thanks I owe many, thank you all, thanks johnsonshiue, thanks TheCADWhisperer, but excuses ... no.
We are here to improve our knowledge.
Please show everyone that I'm wrong.

This here isn't religion, it's exact science.
Show us these realist movements outside the Dynamic Simulation and the DOF, or, do not show and confirm what I said.

Re: How can I make this Movement?

TheCADWhisperer — Fri, 20 Apr 2018 12:26:05 GMT

@Anonymouswrote:
Show us these realist movements outside the Dynamic Simulation and the DOF, or, do not show and confirm what I said.

The assembly environment does not consider parameters such as Gravity, Friction and Forces - those parameters that are part of "real-world" movements are only available in the Dynamic Simulation Environment.

Many (most? all?) products (including CAD products) are sold at several levels of functionality.

Base Inventor does not include Dynamic Simulation functionality and is therefore cheaper to purchase.

Inventor Professional does include Dynamic Simulation functionality and costs a bit more to purchase.

Inventor Professional is a professional product and deserves (requires?) a professional level of preparation.

The Dynamic Simulation environment is an advanced topic in my course curriculum that takes many weeks of instruction to reach even fundamental understanding. It would be rather difficult to provide this level of instruction via a free forum.

Also, the fact that the problem has been marked as "Solved" in this thread indicates to me that there is no value in continuing the effort.

Re: How can I make this Movement?

jan_priban — Fri, 20 Apr 2018 14:35:23 GMT

Hi all,

the Dynamic Simulation module (environment) allows to simulate kinematics. It is part of Inventor Professional.

To simulate Bevel Gear:

1. Use Design accelerator to generate gear

2. Make its assembly flexible

3. Switch to (Dynamic Simulation) DS

4. Rotation joints are generated/created automatically

5. Define Rolling joint

6. Define imposed motion

7. Play simulation

In you case when you have more degree of freedoms, you can lock some of them - for instance let just 1

See basic workflow - BevelGear.mp4

Regards

Jan Priban, Inventor team

Re: How can I make this Movement?

Anonymous — Sat, 21 Apr 2018 04:47:24 GMT

Hi @jan_priban,

Thank you.

Good job, well done,
Now I no longer need to rotate the monitor to simulate real movement after staying 2000 dollars poorer

I'm looking forward to trying this at the first opportunity.

Regards

GTI

Re: How can I make this Movement?

Anonymous — Sat, 21 Apr 2018 05:08:46 GMT

@TheCADWhisperer

Thank you TheCADWhisper, you are a great pro.

Regards

GTI