topic Re: Is there a way to prevent Inventor from updating sub assemblies? in Inventor Forum

Is there a way to prevent Inventor from updating sub assemblies?

zach.bryant — Fri, 11 May 2018 18:54:06 GMT

Hey all, I have seen several people on Youtube make reference to this being an issue but have not been able to find a solution. We use Vault and Inventor 2018 and frequently have scenarios that require us to design parts around other assemblies so we create an Assembly and add the original equipment (which is usually always released for manufacturing and not being modified) and then we add our new parts and/or assemblies to the new main assembly file the verify fitment and create views to share with the customers.

Problems arise when we try to save/check in or update the main assembly it forces updates on the released files because of a small change that is 4-5 sub-assemblies deep. How can I use a assembly from Vault inside a new assembly and prevent inventor from causing a scenario that requires a Save on the locked files?

What I have been doing is drag and drop the new assembly in vault because inventor won't allow in. Then anytime I have to make changes after checking the file out again, I get errors because inventor needs the locked files to be saved. So my current work around is to click the X to close the file and it prompts me to save and I select no on all the locked files, then it asks me if I want to check it in and it will let me.

Anyone have any other ideas or solutions?

Thanks,

Zach

Re: Is there a way to prevent Inventor from updating sub assemblies?

jhackney1972 — Fri, 11 May 2018 20:48:56 GMT

I might try and use the "Defer Update" option under Assemblies in the Application Options. The function of it does not suit all users needs but...

Re: Is there a way to prevent Inventor from updating sub assemblies?

zach.bryant — Fri, 11 May 2018 21:01:24 GMT

I'll give it a try, Thank you for the suggestion. I also have been having weird issues with inventor saying that there are missing files that still need to be downloaded from Vault but when I look in my folders on my computer, they are already there... Lots of weird little things happening.

Re: Is there a way to prevent Inventor from updating sub assemblies?

johnsonshiue — Sat, 12 May 2018 06:22:58 GMT

Hi! John is right. Enable "Defer Update" will force Inventor not to update changes. However, the assembly will not be up-to-date. This can pose an issue if somehow the the components have inter-dependency, meaning the shape change in one part can drive change in another part or assembly. Without everything being fully computed, it may prolong the update process in the end. Sometimes you may run into errors that you don't know how it happened. If possible, I still think it would be better to keep all components up-to-date and save the change. This will help avoid some performance issues due to the pending update.

Many thanks!

Re: Is there a way to prevent Inventor from updating sub assemblies?

zach.bryant — Thu, 17 May 2018 13:16:03 GMT

My problem is that we have a ton of released sub assemblies inside of the new assemblies and the only way to update them would be to go through about 400 files and create a new revision and that is not an option.

What I am looking for is a way to figure out how to make "Local" update vs. "Global" update do what they sound like they are supposed to. Anytime I allow an update or try to do a local update it still updates all the sub assemblies and then wants me to force save over manufacturing files that I cannot update. This leads me to believe the Local just does the current window and global does all open windows.

I just think it's a little ridiculous that I cannot place a table that has about 100 parts in it, into a new assembly so I can design some new parts that will go on it, then simply save the new assembly with my new parts in it.

I have to create assemblies with my new parts, then create another assembly and put it all together and deal with the error messages all the time when making changes.

While Defer update does prevent it from making changes without a prompt, I still have to update the assembly to make changes and it still does not prevent inventor from updating files that are not checked out. I don't understand how this is not a option.

Re: Is there a way to prevent Inventor from updating sub assemblies?

johnsonshiue — Thu, 17 May 2018 15:51:31 GMT

Hi Zach,

I guess we are discussing multiple things here. It looks like you want to design an assembly where all parts are stored locally within the assembly. Is it true? If yes, Inventor does not support such workflow yet. All parts are individual files and so are assemblies. The advantage of this behavior is ease of leverage prior data, since they are all componentized.

Actually, if you want to contain your design within a boundary, you could do that by using project folders. Although, each component is still a file, you can manage them on a project level. You can use Copy Design workflow to create a new project with all new files. Project B has nothing to do with Project A.

The issue with local files is performance and data integrity. When the assembly gets large, wrapping everything in one file can be problematic. It will be slow. And, if somehow the file gets corrupted, you will need to start from scratch.

Many thanks!

Re: Is there a way to prevent Inventor from updating sub assemblies?

zach.bryant — Thu, 17 May 2018 16:28:11 GMT

It is not about me having files saved locally on my harddrive. We have vault so that everyone can access and manage the files on servers. The original issue is that I regularly need to have larger assemblies that include equipment from other departments, and accessories that I am working with. I have to utilize the main assembly that shows the accessories on the equipment to show how the parts are being utilized. The biggest problem, is that inventor is updating the sub assemblies that are released to manufacturing and prevents me from saving my assembly.

I am restricted to using 1 project file as that is how our company has set up out file management.

I guess copy design would be a work around that I could utilize in my department, but I would be stuck with a bunch of useless files if the design on the originals changes..

Re: Is there a way to prevent Inventor from updating sub assemblies?

johnsonshiue — Thu, 17 May 2018 16:51:51 GMT

Hi! I guess there is a little bit misunderstanding of what released status means. If a given assembly is released, all its components need to be set to released too. You should not have an assembly, being a subassembly in another assembly, with unreleased parts. When the parts are changed, the assemblies containing the parts need to be computed regardless of released or not released.

Many thanks!

Re: Is there a way to prevent Inventor from updating sub assemblies?

Hunteil — Tue, 02 Apr 2024 21:51:49 GMT

@johnsonshiue ,
What @zach.bryant is saying is that he has a Vault, a single project file and a whole Vault filled with Released and locked files.

If he creates a brand new assembly and then places a "Released" (locked) component from the Vault or place a components from his local hard drive, he'll get an error requiring him to update that component for some reason.

He's frustrated by this b/c there's an understanding that the file is considered released (locked) and done and shouldn't require additional work to it.

This is a common complaint at my offices as well. We just have to tell Inventor to apply changes locally only.

I theorize that Inventor is just telling the locked file that it's now linked to this new assembly. To further prove this, these error / messages pop up after I save the new assembly. Which means now that the new assembly has a filename and location, it can tell the locked file this information. I personally find this annoying b/c it seems like an outdated method of updating the "where used" or "Used" links. This is truly something I wish Inventor would just talk to Vault about and not harass locked files for no reason. The act of telling the locked file it has a new link only has a purpose in a non-Vault environment.

I've also proven that this step isn't necessary by over writing the local files btw. You have to exit all files. Then download (get) the locally modified locked files. Then reopen the assembly and it won't complain. On the occasions it does complain, just say no to saving those files and exit the assembly and it'll check in that assembly without problem. Then in Vault, you can check the "Where used" or "Used" fields and it'll function just fine. It really proves in my head that this is an outdated feature that they should remove.

PS: These steps are technically the same steps if you tell the dialog box to make edits locally only. The change is only local on your hard drive and when you go to check in, it doesn't bring the changes to those lock files to Vault.

@johnsonshiue , If I'm incorrect in any of this, fill free to let me know. Maybe you can explain it better.

Re: Is there a way to prevent Inventor from updating sub assemblies?

Anonymous — Tue, 02 Apr 2024 22:03:17 GMT

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are building a new assy, and adding in components from your hard drive that already reside in Vault, yes?

If that's the case, use the place from Vault option instead and see if that resolves things.

I think what may be happening is Vault is, as it's supposed to, synchronize properties, etc. and that may be where the disconnect is and why the errors are happening.

Re: Is there a way to prevent Inventor from updating sub assemblies?

johnsonshiue — Wed, 03 Apr 2024 00:30:33 GMT

Hi Noah,

If Inventor prompts the user to check out a released file just by placing it into an assembly, this will be a bug. I need to see the files. Placing a component should not dirty the component itself.

Many thanks!

Re: Is there a way to prevent Inventor from updating sub assemblies?

farringer_nathan — Wed, 03 Apr 2024 11:26:31 GMT

Based on what I read, you could open a new part file & use the derive command to create a part copy of the assembly you want to work around. Once that's done, you can right click the linked assembly in the model browser and select suppress link, which will still maintain the link, just defers the updates like you requested. Then drop this part in a new assembly, ground & root and good to go. Derive is an insanely powerful tool, and works quite well for workflows such as this. This way your original model can update as needed, and you can work off of an exact copy.

If this works, please accept as a solution.

Re: Is there a way to prevent Inventor from updating sub assemblies?

zach.bryant — Wed, 03 Apr 2024 12:47:52 GMT

This happens all the time. This post is quite old and we are now on 2023 inventor and vault, but the issue still persists.

If we create a new assembly and place an existing released product in the assembly so that we can design new accessories for that released product, every time you try to place a new file in the new assembly, inventor requires updating the released parts and wants to save them. Our current workaround (for the last 6+ years) has been to save the new assembly and check it into vault before adding any released files, then check it back out, add/design whatever components are needed, then save everything, and from there we have to click the close file button, this invokes another save, then a prompt to check it in. Cannot check in directly from the Vault tab inside of Inventor in this situation due to unsaved file errors.

Re: Is there a way to prevent Inventor from updating sub assemblies?

johnsonshiue — Wed, 03 Apr 2024 22:15:35 GMT

Hi Zach,

Please share an example that illustrates the behavior. I am not aware of a workflow to do that.

Many thanks!

Re: Is there a way to prevent Inventor from updating sub assemblies?

Hunteil — Thu, 04 Apr 2024 14:19:29 GMT

@johnsonshiue , unfortunately, to reproduce the issue on your side, would require you/Autodesk to copy the Vault environment and some files needed. Almost a iso image would be needed. We've (the community) been complaining about this for a long time. But there's no way to Pack and Go everything.

@zach.bryant I recommend a video recording to show the behavior normally and then show you work around it.

@Anonymous , Placing from Vault also doesn't fix this.

In reply to @farringer_nathan : Creating extra ipts of each "released for manufacturing" files using derives is not a good idea. Derive is a great tool I agree. But duplicating parts is something no engineer should ever want in their databases.

Re: Is there a way to prevent Inventor from updating sub assemblies?

johnsonshiue — Thu, 04 Apr 2024 23:35:53 GMT

Hi Noah,

Are you able to reproduce it persistently? I assume the issue should not be Vault related. One thing to try is that if Vault Add-In is disable, does the behavior still reproduce?

Many thanks!

Re: Is there a way to prevent Inventor from updating sub assemblies?

BDCollett — Fri, 05 Apr 2024 00:16:33 GMT

Inventor saves local files that are read-only and not checked out from Vault. - Autodesk Community - Inventor

We had this other discussion going that seemed to end with no more input, and I feel this is very related to this discussion.

To say, "the issue should not be Vault related", you may be correct that it is not Vault directly causing the issue, which I think we all understand. We want Inventor to stop trying to mess with files that as far as Vault is considered are locked.