topic Re: Tube & Pipe Issues (Crash on new route & Presentations loosing tweak in Inventor Forum

Tube & Pipe Issues (Crash on new route & Presentations loosing tweaks applied)

Anonymous — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:47:23 GMT

Hi,

I have a couple of issues with Tube and pipe, which I use a lot.

The first is that once I have created one run and go to create a 2nd run (say a different pipe size), Inventor will crash out. My current work around is to save after every run so I don't lose much, but it's annoying. My work flow is to have my plant GA (surface treatment process line) assembled into an empty assy and then place and constrain fittings, valves, etc, where I want to route the pipework. I then ground everything and suppress constraints before deleting out the main GA - leaving just my fittings in the right places. I then route between my fittings with different runs to allow me to use the same run multiple times if it is a repeating series. I then convert all my auto-routes to sketches and finally populate.

The second is far more annoying. After creating my pipework assy I create an exploded view and drawing for our workforce to work from, and also for our customer manuals and info for the future.

The issue I have is that I can tweak the fittings and pipes to how I want them, save the file, create a drawing and BOM and get everything how I want it, then randomly when I re-open the drawing or presentation, or just switch between the open files within Inventor, the pipes will lose the tweaks applied to them and all revert back to their original position (the fittings are all fine). Nothing I have found will get it to remember the tweaks applied - it's almost like it sees the pipes as different parts all of a sudden. These are large assemblies with over 100 lengths of pipe, and all the fittings, so it isn't a small task to then try to get the pipes back to where I wanted them - and I've then had the same happen again (queue computer nearly going out of the window!!).

Any ideas on either of them?

I'm on 2019 Prof, with the latest updates installed (but I've had it before as well, maybe even a couple of time on my last version, which was 2016).

Thanks,

Phil

Re: Tube & Pipe Issues (Crash on new route & Presentations loosing tweak

Mark.Lancaster — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 12:41:41 GMT

@Anonymous

Is Inventor crashing on every routed system model you make or just this one?

In addition it's hard to know if the workflow you describe is your work-around to the crash or that's your normal workflow. If the latter you're using tube & pipe incorrectly. Can you confirm the workflow

Re: Tube & Pipe Issues (Crash on new route & Presentations loosing tweak

Anonymous — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 13:11:56 GMT

Hi Mark,

It's been crashing on a few assemblies, not just this one. It only does it on multiple runs, so it is only on the larger assemblies I'm doing. Some of my runs are simple enough to just be a single route and it's always fine.

As for the workflow, that's how I've found the best way to work for my plants is. The only difference is I'm saving after every run to be safe.

I appreciate that I'm not using Inventor to place fittings, etc, only the pipes, and that might not be the way it is intended to be used, but I have found that placing them myself is the quickest way to route things around obstacles, etc.

Always keen to hear an alternative if it'd work better though!!

Phil

Re: Tube & Pipe Issues (Crash on new route & Presentations loosing tweak

Mark.Lancaster — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 12:58:07 GMT

@Anonymous

When it crashes are you seeing the Inventor Crash report? If so private message me and I will inform you of your next step.

Re: Tube & Pipe Issues (Crash on new route & Presentations loosing tweak

Anonymous — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 13:01:11 GMT

@Mark.Lancaster

Nope, it just crashes out and I get nothing in terms of crash report. Funnily enough I did think that was odd, but assumed I'd dismissed it earlier on and it was remembering the fact I didn't send one - but actually I don't recall seeing one for any of these crashes.

Re: Tube & Pipe Issues (Crash on new route & Presentations loosing tweak

cbenner — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 13:32:26 GMT

@Anonymous

I would agree with @Mark.Lancaster that part of the issues you are having may lie in your workflow. Tube & Pipe is notoriously unstable by itself. Don't get me wrong, based on what I have seen and used it is still the best piping program around. It just needs a little TLC, and I think that Autodesk knows this. Until they can make it even better for us, my suggestion would be to follow the established workflows wherever possible in your assemblies. I like that you are converting your auto routes,... that's one of my biggest pieces of advice to users. And it sounds like you have adopted my mantra of "save early - save often".

The instability is usually traced (in my experience) to changing and / or breaking routes one too many times. Each time you modify a run or route it writes back to the database, and I think (my own opinion) that this eventually dirties the database. Following the established workflows could MAYBE help with this somewhat. It's hard to say without seeing what you are designing.

Anyway, that's my two cents worth....

Re: Tube & Pipe Issues (Crash on new route & Presentations loosing tweak

Anonymous — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 13:44:49 GMT

Hi,

Here is a small example, this is just a small portion of a larger assembly. I find it far easier to place things like pipe clips where I know we can fit them, then constrain an elbow to that and that'll set me height/offset, etc, then work around the plant.

If, say I have 5 identical tanks with a water feed, I'll do one run for the 1st tank and then copy the pipe run and constrain it to the fittings on each tank. Reason I do this is to keep everything on one drawing for our shop floor guys.

Re: Tube & Pipe Issues (Crash on new route & Presentations loosing tweak

cbenner — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 13:53:52 GMT

@Anonymous

When you copy those runs, do you use "Make Adaptive" on them?

Constraining fittings "shouldn't" cause too many issues, I do it from time to time when I have no other recourse in my route. I do experience occasional crashes, but not only in assemblies where I do that.

Just thought of another thing we have experienced a lot, and maybe something you could look for. We sometimes (too often) after we have been working in T&P for a while, and making changes to routes etc., will experience strange behavior. Inventor gets (for lack of a better word) jittery. One of the warning signs is when you right click on a run, route or fitting and the expected Tube & Pipe context menu does not open. Suddenly the T&P commands you would normally see are not there. We have learned the hard way, when and if you see this behavior.... save and close Inventor down. Open it right back up and reopen your assembly, and you're good again for a while. If you don't, you WILL crash soon. Might be one more command, might be 50... so watch for anything weird like this as well.

Nice looking skid by the way!

Re: Tube & Pipe Issues (Crash on new route & Presentations loosing tweak

Anonymous — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 14:06:14 GMT

@cbenner

Thanks - I don't think I've seen it go 'jittery' (but I remember that feeling from my old Pro/E days!) but I'll keep an out for that. With my crashes, it is literally after I press New Route the mouse vanishes and I wait about 5-10 secs and it pops.

When I copy a run, I just want it as an exact copy - so whilst in the top level of T&P I copy and paste the number of copies I want and then come out of T&P and into the top level assembly and then constrain those copied runs to the fittings that I already. They don't really need to be adaptive as I know the lengths of pipes will all need to be the same as the 'master' - it just saves creating more parts and having loads of the same length of pipe in my BOM's. I hope that makes sense.

Re: Tube & Pipe Issues (Crash on new route & Presentations loosing tweak

Anonymous — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 14:18:21 GMT

This might help picture things a bit better - you can see a number of the tank top-up and air feeds are identical, so there will be a master run and then a copy of that constrained into the right place.

The pipework down near the front next to the IBC's is the one which is causing me grief for the tweak's vanishing.

Re: Tube & Pipe Issues (Crash on new route & Presentations loosing tweak

Mark.Lancaster — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 17:23:51 GMT

@Anonymous

The crash report info you sent me may be related to an outdated video card. I would update your video card and restart your PC and Inventor.

Before updating driver, make sure to create a Windows restore point.

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/inventor-products/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Inventor-2018-ucrtbase-dll-Error.html

Re: Tube & Pipe Issues (Crash on new route & Presentations loosing tweak

Anonymous — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 17:34:53 GMT

@Mark.Lancaster

Many thanks for looking at it. I only updated my driver last week, and I have just checked and am running the latest version.

I've had the issue before the update, so if it is gxf related, I guess I'll have to wait for more updates, but I'll keep an eye on that.

Thanks again.