topic Re: File and entity creation and modification history - Inventor in Inventor Forum

File and entity creation and modification history - Inventor

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 00:29:45 GMT

Hi All,

I work for an educational institution. In some cases I need to verify that the work was done by a particular student.

I am versed in multiple CAD packages and high end CAD systems store not only creation and modification history of the actual CAD file, but also creation and modification history of any entity within the CAD file.

Typically the history of the file or the entity within the file would include: user name, computer name, software license number and type, creation date and all modification dates (including user name, license and computer name of each modification).

I remember that 20 years ago it was possible to access entity creation history in the Autocad file, and I wonder if this functionality is still present in Inventor?

If Inventor file does not internally store detailed history, can you suggest any other way to verify file authenticity and creation location?

We do not use Vault and even if we did, the files may be created outside of Vault, so I am looking for forensic solutions within the actual CAD files only.

Thanks,

Robert

Re: File and entity creation and modification history - Inventor

Xun.Zhang — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 00:39:38 GMT

Howdy Robert, I see that you are visiting as a new member to the Inventor Forum.
Welcome to the Autodesk Community!

This is a really great question, right now, Inventor don't have such remarks for each modification, they are stored by model with parameters, geometries, etc. In your request, it seems engineering notepad is a good way to track manually.

However, in some of cases, it really difficult to track such as sketch change, for example, the base sketch changed from rectangle to a circle, there is no proper method to have such details.

File do have versions, and we are investigate a possible solution like alternative representation to allow user have a chance to track each state in a single file.

If you are interested with WIP project, please join in the Beta program via https://bit.ly/InventorBeta and have a try with latest Alpha build.

Hope it helps!

Re: File and entity creation and modification history - Inventor

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 01:00:32 GMT

Thanks Xun, I will look into joining Beta program.

Right now I'm looking for some ideas on how to verify that students work is authentic and not just copied from, or created by another person. Entity forensics is the easiest option, but if it is not available in Inventor, I have to come up with some other method.

Anyone out there have some good ideas?

Re: File and entity creation and modification history - Inventor

Mark.Lancaster — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 01:06:43 GMT

@Anonymous

You may want to go over this forum posting https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-forum/need-to-catch-my-students-cheating/m-p/5587748#M542918

Re: File and entity creation and modification history - Inventor

IgorMir — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 03:23:49 GMT

Hi Robert;

From my teaching experience (ten years at TAFE) I can say, that around a middle of a semestre I would have a pretty good idea of who is capable of what. So were the students. Frankly - I don't recall a single case when someone was trying to cheat on me. Or maybe they were much better in pulling the wool over my eyes that I thought they were. But no, I don't think so. Vast majority of my students were genuinely keen to learn the subject. And if some of them had difficulties to follow the curriculum - we worked together sorting the problems out. So, catching them cheating electronically had never crossed my mind, really. Maybe you should give your students a bit more credit? Or run the subject in such a way that students themselves would feel uncomfortable cheating? Make them to feel proud of their own work?

Cheers,

Igor.

@Anonymous wrote:

Thanks Xun, I will look into joining Beta program.

Right now I'm looking for some ideas on how to verify that students work is authentic and not just copied from, or created by another person. Entity forensics is the easiest option, but if it is not available in Inventor, I have to come up with some other method.

Anyone out there have some good ideas?

Re: File and entity creation and modification history - Inventor

Mark.Lancaster — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 06:34:37 GMT

@IgorMir

You make a valid point... But on the other end of this I would also say there's a valid point of catching students as well. If a teacher feels certain students are not up to the task they may want to confirm this and try to determine another approach in getting the message across.

But here's an example I want to share where this checking comes into play and perhaps has nothing to do with how the teacher taught the class.

About a year ago there was an Inventor forum user who was a student who admitted he had no interest in his Inventor class and used the forums as a means to get his class assignments done and including using the forums to get answers on test he was taking at school. Yes this is an extreme example but it's not always about how a teacher teaches or how they approach their class material.

Update: Forgot this.. But you also have students coming here to the forums seeking support and guidance because that also indicate their teacher doesnt really know what to do or doesnt understand the subject matter.

Anyhow there's valid points on both sides of the table.

Re: File and entity creation and modification history - Inventor

IgorMir — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 06:52:28 GMT

Hi Mark;

Yes, it happens too. But not that often. One can always spot a student in the class room, who couldn't care less about the subject. So, I wouldn't waste my breath on him too much. Since we can bring a horse to the water, but we can not make it to drink.

I had two interesting cases to add to the topic. Once a student (who was below average) - at the end of the semester had produced a fairly reasonable work. In fact - much better, than some of those, whom I considered to be at the top of the class. So, I just got another exercise (not complicated at all) and offered to him to knock it out in my presence. Sure enough - the work was far from impressive. I asked him if he would't mind I use that last work of his for the evaluation of his performance? He didn't mind, naturally. And had to repeat the class afterwards.

The second case had begun pretty much as the one above. And I did exactly the same upon viewing the super job done from the student I have expected little from. Yet that guy did the extra exercise in no time! As it turned out - he was spending a great deal of extra time on his own learning the software. English was his second language, so he hesitated to ask questions. But he worked really hard. Do I have to say that he passed the exam with flying colours?

Teaching is sometimes fun too. 😀

Cheers,

Igor.

@Mark.Lancaster wrote:

@IgorMir

You make a valid point... But on the other end of this I would also say there's a valid point of catching students as well. If a teacher feels certain students are not up to the task they may want to confirm this and try to determine another approach in getting the message across.

But here's an example I want to share where this checking comes into play and perhaps has nothing to do with how the teacher taught the class.

About a year ago there was an Inventor forum user who was a student who admitted he had no interest in his Inventor class and used the forums as a means to get his class assignments done and including using the forums to get answers on test he was taking at school. Yes this is an extreme example but it's not always about how a teacher teaches or how they approach their class material.

Anyhow there's valid points on both sides of the table.

Re: File and entity creation and modification history - Inventor

johnsonshiue — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 22:36:03 GMT

Hi Robert,

We have internal debug tool to tell when the file was created and how it was created (copied or from scratch). I cannot share the techniques in public for apparent reason. If you want, you can send me the files directly (johnson.shiue@autodesk.com). I can tell you which one is original and which one is copy.

Many thanks!

Re: File and entity creation and modification history - Inventor

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 00:09:56 GMT

Thanks Mark, great post, I found some interesting ideas there.

Re: File and entity creation and modification history - Inventor

NachoShaw — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 00:18:02 GMT

Im wondering if this oculd be achieved by using code & user interaction events. You could-

create a set of attributes that would hold the information you want to interrogate
populate the attributes when users make changes and record those specifics
gather information like pc name, user name, date, etc etc
have a custom tool that only you have that will read the attributed info from the students files

students wouldnt be aware and you get the information you need. code could be ilogic in the template files so everyone gets by default

just a thought

Re: File and entity creation and modification history - Inventor

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 00:33:29 GMT

Hi Igor,

I agree that most students are there to learn and would not cheat, but I came across a few who have no interest in learning anything but are after the piece of paper at the end. I can tell who is cheating after a few sessions but the problem is that nowadays you have to have a hard prof otherwise students will appeal and the external parties will get involved, and those parties have no idea what CAD is and how it works etc.

The easiest solution is to run the in class test/exam, but comprehensive exams take too much of leaning/project time. Project based learning and assessment is definitely the way to go, especially that we are now clustering multiple engineering units together and assessing them based on project work outcomes.

In my view, basic screening is needed to weed out students who do not want to learn at all, to keep appropriate academic standard and reputation. It would be unfair to other students if lousy cheaters go through and get the same recognition as honest and hard working students.

Re: File and entity creation and modification history - Inventor

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 00:38:57 GMT

Thanks Johnson,

I understand, when I have a hard case and I will need hard evidence I will contact you with the files :-), otherwise I will use other techniques.

Re: File and entity creation and modification history - Inventor

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 01:06:16 GMT

Thank you all for your thoughts and contributions.

I have few ideas now to test and experiment with.

comparing feature order, dimension order and parameter names
inserting iLogic code into the start up files (recording user activity)
reading and comparing GUID of files using iLogic
comparing file GUID using external tool VB, Java etc.

Thanks,

Re: File and entity creation and modification history - Inventor

johnsonshiue — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 01:33:40 GMT

Hi Robert,

Here is a very easy way to check files DNA without using our internal tool. Download 7zip tool. Inventor ipt and iam files are actually compressed files. You can use 7zip to crack them open. You will see the segment GUIDs. If the two files are related, you will see the same GUID. The probability of having the same GUID in two different files is lower than getting hit by a meteor rock.

Many thanks!

Re: File and entity creation and modification history - Inventor

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 02:38:20 GMT

Thanks Johnson, I have opened several files using 7zip and I'm comparing the content.

This is great, I should be able to automate the task of comparing files using 7zip or other compression software.

Thanks a lot for your help 🙂