topic Re: Modelling Sofa's for Manufacture and Visualisation: Best Approach? in Inventor Forum

Modelling Sofa's for Manufacture and Visualisation: Best Approach?

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Apr 2020 13:43:39 GMT

I'm fairly new both to designing sofa's, and to Inventor (and Auto Desk overall for that matter). Having done a fair bit of research over the last few weeks, it became apparent to me that using Auto Desk would be the best option, and in particular was advised that Inventor would suit my needs (because of free form). To help explain my needs, I have included an example armchair that i'm going to model for practice purposes.

NOTE: my previous experience is as a sole SolidWorks user of about 6 years, mostly as a solid modeller, with a sprinkle of surfacing (rather basic though).

AIM

Produce models of sofa's and other soft seating that could be used for manufacturing purposes, and for producing photo producing realistic renders.

The manufacturing file would be used (where possible) for full manufacture: frame building, forming mouldings for foam (where necessary), as a template for creating the upholstery flat patterns, more...

Bonus Points: awarded to myself if I reach the end of my post without sounding like a total newbie.

QUESTIONS

Shape: My initial assumption is that it may not be necessary to model the 'plumping' for my CAD models and drawings for manufacture. Instead, perhaps a simple 'flat' version is supplied to the factory (as the batting takes care of all the plumping naturally), along with some lovely realistic renders showing off my furniture in all its squishy glory (but let's keep the technical terminology down to a minimum...)

Modelling: And on that note, how on earth would I even model this?! A combination for surfacing, solid modelling, and free form perhaps?

Could this same file be used to produce the cut patterns for my upholstery?

Files: Is all of this possible to achieve in one model? More over, is it even possible to achieve in one software? And if not, what would you advise the best workflow/ software bundle to be?

Renders: This would probably be done outside of Inventor (either in 3DS Max or another software), but for now i'm just focusing on modelling.LOAF Swaggamuffin AngleLOAF Swaggamuffin Front

Thanks in advance for your time.

Stay safe and well!

Regards,

Luke

Re: Modelling Sofa's for Manufacture and Visualisation: Best Approach?

andrewdroth — Mon, 06 Apr 2020 20:04:05 GMT

I hate to tell you this, but I don't think Inventor is the right product for this.

For the frame, sure. The foam shape, maybe. But you will not get anything desirable for the fabric. Maybe that's not an issue?

I also don't feel like it's an ideal tool for the rendering portion either. Hopefully some folks with more experience with that can chime in here.

Re: Modelling Sofa's for Manufacture and Visualisation: Best Approach?

johnsonshiue — Tue, 07 Apr 2020 00:28:33 GMT

Hi! Yes, Andrew is right. The upholstery will be very difficult to model in Inventor. It is because the fabric is flexible stretchable. Also the cleaves, curves, and intersections are fairly complicated. I don't think Inventor is the right tool for that. However, the inner frame and the mechanism are perfect for Inventor to tackle.

Many thanks!

Re: Modelling Sofa's for Manufacture and Visualisation: Best Approach?

-niels- — Tue, 07 Apr 2020 06:32:20 GMT

Agreeing with the others; Inventor would be usable for making the frame and perhaps the foam, but not so much for cloth.

3DS Max could be an option as it does have cloth simulation.

A couple of examples:

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-max-forum/expert-tips-modeling-a-pillow-in-3ds-max/m-p/7000137#M134995

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-max-forum/3ds-max-2016-make-a-pillow-with-cloth-simulation-and-displace/m-p/6207641#M140088

I don't think you'd be able to get any cutting patterns from cloth designed in 3DS Max though, but i'm too unfamiliar with that part to say for sure.

It is a good package for making photorealistic renderings though.

All in all i don't think you'll get round with just 1 software package, but it does depend a bit on your needs.

Just as a reference for Inventor, see this topic for how those recessed buttons might be done:

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-forum/sofa-chair-help/m-p/7420886#M661601

Re: Modelling Sofa's for Manufacture and Visualisation: Best Approach?

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Apr 2020 08:33:54 GMT

@andrewdroththanks for your reply,

Well I guess the fabric aspect wouldn't be the most essential part, at least not in terms of preparing it for manufacture. To be honest, I think i'll cross the fabric-c-pattern-bridge when I come to it, as it's a whole other world in itself really!

RE the rendering: I wouldn't bother with it for rendering anyway, as here i'd use KeyShot or begin to get my brain around 3DS.

Thanks 🙂

Re: Modelling Sofa's for Manufacture and Visualisation: Best Approach?

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Apr 2020 08:37:08 GMT

Thanks @johnsonshiue

Its becoming more and more apparent that Inventor may not be the way! Hopefully there is an ideal combination of AutoCAD packages. I did in fact contact a sales consultant regarding this, just before the pandemic took hold, so haven''t heard anything.

Re: Modelling Sofa's for Manufacture and Visualisation: Best Approach?

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Apr 2020 09:03:59 GMT

@-niels- Thanks for your reply, and for the very useful links too.

The funny thing is, before I even touched Inventor I actually began a introductory course in 3DS Max (which I didn't complete) about 2 months - there seemed to be a few crossed wires between the trainer and myself, as evidently I hadn't made it clear that I was looking for a solution that would enable me to MANUFACTURE sofas and soft furniture.

RE the buttons, I think Max is definitely the way to go! I'm starting to sway more towards the idea that a 'marked up' drawing may well be all I need in regards to the manufacturing. Then for the visualisation, I pick my model up, drop it into Max and then progress my detail to the next level.

For some context, a few years ago I designed a drinks trolley with a metal frame. for manufacturing purposes, all I needed to do was to mark out where the welds would go on my drawings; there was no need to actually model them. Had I decided to produce renders (which were not required for this project) I would have included them. So maybe a simple representation of the overall form is all I need in Inventor, before putting the icing on the cake (for rendering) in Max?

(Thinking out loud a bit here!)

Thanks

Re: Modelling Sofa's for Manufacture and Visualisation: Best Approach?

-niels- — Tue, 07 Apr 2020 09:34:19 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

So maybe a simple representation of the overall form is all I need in Inventor, before putting the icing on the cake (for rendering) in Max?
(Thinking out loud a bit here!)

Thanks

@Anonymous, i think this is what we are all sortoff suggesting.

You can build your frames in Inventor with detailed and accurate dimensions for manufacturing, then add foam+cloth as an approximation for overall dimensions in Inventor as well before exporting the model to 3DS Max and editing/recreating the soft parts for visualization.

(Cloth in Inventor would just be a texture)

As for a software solution, Autodesk offers the Product design & manufacturing Collection which includes both Inventor and 3DS Max (plus some other software that might come in handy).

Most people will indicate that 3DS Max has a pretty steep learning curve, which you may have experienced already with the introductory course, but once you get the hang of it you'll find it's a really powerful piece of software which can do a lot. (A LOT!)

Inventor is easier to get started with but requires good design practices, so some basic training is a good idea.

Hope you can make a good decision for your requirements.

Best of luck!

Re: Modelling Sofa's for Manufacture and Visualisation: Best Approach?

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Apr 2020 12:50:33 GMT

Perfect, thank you all so much!

RE inventor: I have a trial version, and as i'm used to solid works it shouldn't take me long to get up to speed. Max will obviously be another story all together!

Thanks again everyone for your advice and support.

Stay safe and well.

Regards

Luke

Re: Modelling Sofa's for Manufacture and Visualisation: Best Approach?

JDMather — Tue, 07 Apr 2020 12:59:49 GMT

You have a big learning curve to climb - I'll wager a couple of years worth of effort.

Re: Modelling Sofa's for Manufacture and Visualisation: Best Approach?

Anonymous — Thu, 07 May 2020 10:49:24 GMT

UPDATE

First of all, thanks to those of that previously contributed to my post, it was a big help, and I am always very appreciative of the support from the community.

My armchair is now through the theoretical 'manufacturing phase' that we discussed before, I.E. The inventor part of the modelling process. Now I'm ready to soften things up in Max.

What would be the natural/best approach here? Would I import my model into Inventor (though interoperability seems to have issues at the moment), and then manipulate the surfaces and try to achieve something close to the reference image I attached in my first post? How would you personally get from my model to the armchair in the photograph?

I'm sure some of you may approach it differently, so I'd love to hear all of your ideas!

Re: Modelling Sofa's for Manufacture and Visualisation: Best Approach?

-niels- — Thu, 07 May 2020 12:14:04 GMT

Might be a good time to start a separate topic on that over on the 3DS max forum, there's bound to be more knowledge on it over there.

I, myself, haven't played with cloth modifiers in a long time and i never really learned how to model in 3DS Max so i can't really give any direct advice.

I've always just imported my models into Max through the "import" option and ever since using Arnold i choose not to import Inventor's materials/textures, creating and applying my own Arnold materials.

You might even come a long way with bump and/or displacement maps, though looking at your model i don't think those would create the kind of "fluff" you're after. (you'll need them anyway for the cloth texture in itself, but less so for "bulging" out the cushions)

You could also do some more pre-processing in Inventor by adding fillets where you know the cushions will be rounded.
Or maybe even add a few freeform shapes to approximate your design before importing it into Max for texturing.

Also, your model doesn't look like it's built with multiple solids... (either multisolid or assembly)
Doing that can help a lot when imported into Max, giving you separate entities to apply textures to.
That reduces the need to select surfaces individually in order to apply different textures.

Just some of my thoughts, hope it helps.

Re: Modelling Sofa's for Manufacture and Visualisation: Best Approach?

Anonymous — Thu, 07 May 2020 13:12:06 GMT

Hi Niels,

Thanks for your support, I'll re-post in the 3DS max forum as you suggested.

Thanks for your ideas. The model is actually constructed of multiple bodies.

In regards to textures, I won't be rendering in 3DS Max as i'll just be finishing off the modelling there, and then add materials and rendering in another package. I definitely think softening the shapes a little is a good idea, so thanks for the tip 🙂