topic Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate in Inventor Forum

Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

jwmb224 — Tue, 05 May 2020 19:13:13 GMT

Hi All,

Can't seem to find anything on this topic. We are a sheet metal manufacturing facility, and quite frequently deal with diamond thread plate aluminum. We would be drastically more efficient if we were able to render our such products with Inventor, as opposed to trying to set up a good photo shoot every time. Not to mention, that stuff is hard to photograph.

here is a quick shot of what that stuff looks like in real life.

here is also a video so you can see the reflectivity of it.

Ok. That's real life of it. So to get this stuff into Inventor, i drew it in manually, and used Inventor to generate the bmp's that i use for a bump maps.

Creating a new generic texture, setting the reflectivity, and adding the bump map, makes it look like this:

Now this is actually pretty accurate. It will dazzle as it's rotated, just like it's supposed to. The issue that i'm having, is when i try to ray trace it. then it looks like this:

I can't figure out why ray tracing kills the bump map. is that normal? has anyone else ever attempted this? Any tips would be appreciated.

Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

kelly.young — Tue, 05 May 2020 20:09:40 GMT

Hello @jwmb224 you might want to change the reflection to chrome.dds for the best reflection during rendering.

If you try rendering through Environments > Inventor Studio you might have better results instead of Ray Tracing from the Ribbon within the window.

You can change the lighting styles and shadows to improve the washed out appearance. There are many different diamond plate appearance out of the box that you might be able to use.

If you want to supply the example part with appearance image with bump map that would be helpful.

Please select the Accept Solution button if a post solves your issue or answers your question.

Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

thomas.fitzgerald — Tue, 05 May 2020 20:17:30 GMT

@kelly.young is right. You'll want to use Inventor Studio for more photo realistic renderings. The graphics engine in core Inventor is not designed to generate photo realistic renderings.

Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

jwmb224 — Tue, 05 May 2020 20:49:27 GMT

Hi Kelly,

I did try Inventor Studio as you guys suggested, but it yields pretty well identical results as far as the diamond plate is concerned.

The diamond plate that is shipped with Inventor is a black steel diamond plate; very different looking than what we do. However, it does seem to be more visible after rendering/ray tracing than my home made one.

Attached is the example part along with the appearance image. I've also included a physical thread plate part in case you don't like how i made the texture images.

Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

kelly.young — Tue, 05 May 2020 23:19:29 GMT

@jwmb224 thanks for supplying parts, can you attach the Thread Plate.bmp and any other custom texture image you are using as well?

Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

jwmb224 — Wed, 06 May 2020 00:55:19 GMT

Hey Kelly. i just use bmp's i generate from the thread plate model i have. i figured you'll want to make your own. but attached is what i used.

Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

jwmb224 — Mon, 11 May 2020 23:40:06 GMT

Hey Kelly. Did you try rendering the thread plate?

Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

jwmb224 — Tue, 12 May 2020 01:21:33 GMT

well let me see! 🙂

Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

kelly.young — Tue, 12 May 2020 04:24:10 GMT

Hello @jwmb224 I was able to use the image you provided and it rendered pretty well with a short 30 iteration run:

The way I setup was to choose Stone and make a copy of it. Then you can change out the image and bump map.

You have to Edit Image from the little triangles at right and make the Scale smaller to where it looks correct. I just put it in the Old Warehouse and tweaked the settings a bit.

This video might help:

Inventor Studio Rendering Settings

Please select the Accept Solution button if a post solves your issue or answers your question.

Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

jwmb224 — Wed, 13 May 2020 14:23:25 GMT

the texture is showing up fine Kelly, but the chrome is what's missing. the actual material in real life is reflective enough that your lady could use it to pluck her eye-brows 🙂 you can hold it up and see what's going on in the room behind you. adding that level of reflectivity is where i had a problem with inventor, in that i would get the reflection, but at the cost of the threads; inventor would all but blot them out. could you add more reflection to your scene and see what it does? i have literally spent weeks of my life messing with this 😕

Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

jwmb224 — Wed, 13 May 2020 22:18:58 GMT

Hey Kelly,

Here is what i'm missing:

this is obviously not a reflective part. but see on the upper side of each of the threads how you can see the light reflecting off of it? THIS is what the bump map is supposed to be doing. This fully gives the illusion that the texture we're looking at is 3D. Why doesn't it do that for the bump maps i'm inserting? Is there a setting somewhere that i'm missing?

Thanks,

Jared

Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

lena.talkhina — Tue, 26 May 2020 12:44:26 GMT

Hello @jwmb224 !

Great to see you here on Inventor Forum.

Did you find a solution?
If yes, please click on the "Accept as Solution" button as then also other community users can easily find and benefit from the information.
If not please don't hesitate to give an update here in your topic so all members know what ́s the progression on your question is and what might be helpful to achieve what you ́re looking for. 🙂

Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

kelly.young — Tue, 26 May 2020 17:15:56 GMT

Hello @jwmb224 I have had varying degrees of success using that image as a bump, but haven't been able to get it to where they show up exactly as the real life picture in the first post.

If you want a true raised profile like in real life, you might have to model them as small extrusions/iFeature/emboss then pattern, which is less than ideal. I think the bump is primarily good at creating textures and small elevations, but those diamonds are a pretty big step.

Please select the Accept Solution button if a post solves your issue or answers your question.

Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

jwmb224 — Tue, 26 May 2020 21:15:44 GMT

Hey Kelly,

Thanks so much for taking the time to dig into this. I know that bump maps are really really good for rendering small abrasions and texturing; that's initially what set me on the path of trying to accomplish this with bump maps. Do you think this is a bug in Inventor, or if this is just something that's by design not made to render bigger bumps on a surface?

Jared

Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

Lucas.dolinarVFXZU — Fri, 14 Jan 2022 07:02:44 GMT

Hello, if you are still working on this i might have found the problem:

the .bmp you made is not a heightmap...

If you want that shine you'll need a gradiant on the surfaces wich are supposed to at an angle. Also a different brightness on the inside / outside of the diamond shape.

Regards,

Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

jwmb224 — Fri, 14 Jan 2022 19:56:06 GMT

Hello,

i am indeed still working on this (hoping to stumble upon a solution :D) i have attached an .ipt with the physical diamonds on it. could you perhaps show me what you mean with creating a "height map"?

Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

Lucas.dolinarVFXZU — Fri, 14 Jan 2022 22:04:45 GMT

Hello again,
check the pattern.PNG file to see what i meant by gradient / heightmap.
but the way i achieved this is... scuffed: I am not familiar with image editing programs so i sliced the part into height sections and took a screenshot.
For more complex patterns / more details (resolution and/or gradient steps) it's easily possible to automate this technique in other Software.
Edit: possible - but the correct method would be to draw the pattern instead of modelling it. It's also usually better to add a slight amount of extra brightness to the outer "edges" of your "fake geometry" (the default Knurl Appearence is a good example)

This should give you what you're looking for, however at certain angles you will still not see any Bumps due to the Camera / Light angle.
I recommend combining the bump with a texture (and link their scale)

Good luck,
LD

Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

jwmb224 — Sat, 15 Jan 2022 17:00:22 GMT

wow. i must say, you got way closer than i ever have. thank you for taking the time to stop by and add insight.

could you provide me with a little clarity on 2 points though:

It's also usually better to add a slight amount of extra brightness to the outer "edges" of your "fake geometry"
I recommend combining the bump with a texture
- will the texture image be the same as the bump image? or would you recommend a different kind of map? the default knurl is missing from my inventor for some reason, but the "diamond plate" and "checkered" are there, however, they don't actually render very well 😏

Thanks again Lucas.

Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

Lucas.dolinarVFXZU — Sun, 16 Jan 2022 18:36:04 GMT

Do you have Autodesk's Appearance library active in your project? (You should!)
Otherwise check the standard path: C:\Users\Public\Documents\Autodesk\Inventor 20xx\Textures\bumpmaps

In there should be a Knurl2_bump.png, thats what i was referring to.

As for your questions:

The brightness will highlight the edges of the fake surface better. For actual geometry you can add a radius of realistic size (usually 0,1-0,5mm) to get the best results.
The Texture is not the same as the Bump. It will probably have a slight shadow on the inside corners, it will have the color of the actual material + surface imperfections... sadly i cannot help you with this as i am not familiar with any image editing software.

Also, after your reply led me to look at the Diamond plate_bump and you are correct... it is bad.

Hope this finally answers your questions, seeing how old this thread is...
regards, LD

Re: Need Tips for Rendering Thread Plate

jwmb224 — Fri, 19 Jul 2024 22:12:35 GMT

this is the closest i've ever gotten. i'm not sure if they updated inventor, or if coming back and just giving your post another run just helped. i did use your height map, even if you didn't make it the officially best way possible; looks quite real life 🙂