topic Re: Inventor and UCS in Inventor Forum

Inventor and UCS

NachoShaw — Wed, 24 Mar 2021 03:03:11 GMT

Hey

Why do the part and assembly files orient to the wrong UCS? Even after corrected, they will open reverted to the old orientation.....

The files seem to be set as YZX instead of XYZ. I know some will say you can change it by renaming the cube view but that doesn't fully resolve the issue.

It's important to get UCS right especially when sharing files. We found that our old templates were not UCS oriented properly from the template files and when we shared with contractors, our files were rotated 90 degrees out of UCS. So we fixed them but the rotation doesn't quote work and when we open them, they rotate back to the old view... Can it be fixed or is it another one of those inventor things?

Re: Inventor and UCS

NachoShaw — Wed, 24 Mar 2021 04:56:03 GMT

Here is what i mean..

new from standard inventor template default XY plane

UCS reoriented to match cube

new sketch command, notice the rotation away from top left

model added to align with UCS (and cube)

file closed then opened. Notice the reversion back to the original orientation of XY

it should open like this

When collaborating with other services which happens a lot, its super important to get the USC right especially when files are being placed into Navisworks for coordination. As great as Inventor is, you gotta figure this out, its a fundemental requirement in cad development and i cant understand why you still havent fixed it yet especially when you are driving AnyCAD which its only purpose is to collaborate!

Here is a standard Assembly template with a non native file placed. notice the incorrect orientation placement and rotation of 90 degrees to the UCS. The file was made in solidworks using the correct UCS.

Re: Inventor and UCS

JDMather — Wed, 24 Mar 2021 11:09:59 GMT

Home Position.

Attach your *.ipt file here and I will fix it for you.

(XYZ never change.)

Re: Inventor and UCS

CCarreiras — Wed, 24 Mar 2021 11:21:07 GMT

Hi!

Changing the cube orientation doest not solve this question.

Go to TOOLS and select your preferences.

Re: Inventor and UCS

NachoShaw — Wed, 24 Mar 2021 13:01:58 GMT

I have done that already.

Re: Inventor and UCS

NachoShaw — Wed, 24 Mar 2021 14:53:56 GMT

Home position is set and while that does save the position, it doesnt resolve the problem. Maybe its just something we have to get used to but the rotation back can be problematic for the lesser experienced team members who might not be experienced enough to recognise the change in the XYZ position...

Below is my template with the XYZ correctly oriented, the Home Cube matching (Front = XY) and the Home position set for Top Left. in Application Options, ViewCube orientation is set to XZ(+Y), XY(+Z). Lets say we need to add a sketch to the top plane. Notice how the orientation reverts back to XY(-Z) giving the 'top' plane as XZ plane. Why does it do that? Why does it rotate 90 degrees in the wrong orientation? Can the rotation be turned off?

Re: Inventor and UCS

NachoShaw — Wed, 24 Mar 2021 15:02:58 GMT

FYI your XYZ according to your cube settings would be incorrect. XZ(+Y) should be a front view, XY(+Z) should be a top view

Autocad has it right

XY has always been the 2D plan view, Z has always been the 3D axis

Re: Inventor and UCS

johnsonshiue — Wed, 24 Mar 2021 20:44:36 GMT

Hi! The way View Cube, Orientation, UCS, and Sketch work in Inventor can be written as a book. I have to say there are indeed confusing behaviors. For this case, I would think that the Home View was defined as Y-up position. Please share an example Inventor file. It should be sorted out easily.

Many thanks!

Re: Inventor and UCS

NachoShaw — Wed, 24 Mar 2021 21:06:35 GMT

on a generic standard Inventor template, the Y view is the home view. The problem is the orientation of the view which is Y up when it should be Z up. Never in any other program has the XYZ workspace defaults to Y up as that can lead to an incorrect orientation. Here is great example. in fig.1 i have derived a panel into a part. the panel appears to be landscape.

fig. 1

The panel has actually been modelled as a portrait oriented model (fig 2) but because the user didnt have the UCS icon turned on and the homecube implied it was the right orientation, the whole model is incorrect to the UCS. When this model was shared to the GC for alignment into a counter, it was on its back! This industry standard Z up needs to be correct in the file and the file needs to stop orientation to a default Y up orientation. Its always been Z up, always.

fig. 2

Parts naturally orient this way when starting the first sketch, Y up.... the wrong plane is selected so the quick fix is to reset the View Cube but in reality, its wrong.

And yes, people may be quick to say that you just need to select the right plane first but in those instances (and there a lot) where UCS origin is not shown, you would assume you are selecting the right plane but you are not because the origin has rotated itself Y up

Re: Inventor and UCS

NachoShaw — Wed, 24 Mar 2021 21:12:59 GMT

As an additional comment, this was done for a company who didnt display UCS. When its turned on (as shown) its then clear that its not aligned. The assumption was that the automatic orientation dictated the XYZ but as Y is up, its made the whole development on its back

Re: Inventor and UCS

johnsonshiue — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 00:31:45 GMT

Hi! I personally prefer Z-up also. But, it is not my decision to make it Y-up. It is not hard to change the template to Z-up though, which is why I asked for a file so I can show you.

Here is what you need to do. First, you need to redefine Front (looking at ZX). Then redefine Home so that Z remains up isometrically. Lastly, you will want to turn on origin planes. This will avoid the rotating view to Y-up when creating the first sketch.

Many thanks!

Re: Inventor and UCS

cadman777 — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 02:04:48 GMT

Exactly what I was going to say.

Lotta manual work to fix old projects!

Re: Inventor and UCS

ajremillard — Tue, 19 Apr 2022 16:08:56 GMT

It doesn't seem to work. When creating a new 2D sketch, Inventor reverts back to its default orientation with Y-axis as up.

Re: Inventor and UCS

cadman777 — Tue, 19 Apr 2022 17:30:03 GMT

Did you fix that in your Template files?

If so, it should work.

Re: Inventor and UCS

ajremillard — Tue, 19 Apr 2022 18:14:07 GMT

Yes the gif showed was with the template. But it still does not work, either within the template file or within a new part created from the template. See screencast for more info.

Re: Inventor and UCS

ajremillard — Tue, 19 Apr 2022 18:23:26 GMT

See said screencast here.

https://autode.sk/3MfuNnX

Re: Inventor and UCS

cadman777 — Tue, 19 Apr 2022 18:28:12 GMT

I see what you mean.

Sorry but I don't have an answer.

I can't offer any solutions since I'm on an older version of Inventor.

Maybe Johnson knows something about a bug or something that needs attention in 2023?

Re: Inventor and UCS

NachoShaw — Tue, 19 Apr 2022 18:39:35 GMT

you also need to -

right click the cube and change these options

cross your fingers, hope it worked

even then, its still doesnt behave like a true Z up. example below. This template has been set as Z up with the view cube to match but.... when a sketch is initiated, it STILL behaves like a Y up and rotates back to that which is wrong.

it drives me insane because Y up makes collaboration impossible because of rotated modelling and when set to Z up, it persists in forcing itself back to Y up!

Autodesk are having a big push on collaboration between platforms and they the biggest thing with modelling, orientation, is entirely overlooked. its a poor show

Re: Inventor and UCS

ajremillard — Tue, 19 Apr 2022 18:45:39 GMT

I have the same problem as yours but:

What version are you running?
Shouldn't your options be set as such for the sketch creation orientation to work correctly ?

Re: Inventor and UCS

NachoShaw — Tue, 19 Apr 2022 18:55:55 GMT

the only option really is to not rotate to the sketch plane, settings are limited.

The other odd nonesicle thing that Autodesk overlooks is part of the collaboration. Using a standard template, i made a model with text applied to the top face (as Inventor had it oriented). I sent it to Fusion through inventor using the collab function and witout any changes, it comes in rotated! This is the issue and Autodesk dont understand. fusion, AutoCAD, most other 3D platforms are Z up. Navisworks, the Autodesk collaboration platform for contractors is Z up, Revit is Z up. Anything shared with these natively get models rotated 90 degrees. Our Contractors wont accept our models unless we have confirmed they are rotated as Z up. This is a ton of work.

Beam saws are Z up

CNC machines are Z up

Splindles are Z up

4 cutters are Z up

the only thing in production that isnt Z up is Inventor!