topic Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites in Installation & Licensing Forum

License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

BMcAnney — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 17:40:45 GMT

The new industry collections include a wider range of software than the previous suites. This sounds great, except it seems that Collections fall before Suites in the cascading order, so I am completely unable to use the additional software in the collections (since those licenses are the first ones to be used up).

Here's an example.

License server holds: 20 Infrastructure Design Suite Premium licenses, and 5 AEC Collection licenses.
The AEC Collection includes everything in the IDSP, plus more software (e.g. Autodesk Vehicle Tracking).
5 users launch Civil 3D. The AEC Collection licenses are now all used up, because they fall first in the cascading order.
A sixth user now tries to use Autodesk Vehicle Tracking, but is unable to pull a license (because the AEC Collection includes AVT, while IDSP does not).

What's the logic of having Collections licenses used up first, when they include more software than the previous suites? This completely prevents us from being able to use the new software included in the AEC Collection. Is there any workaround here? Am I missing something?

Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

Mark.Lancaster — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 17:43:49 GMT

@BMcAnney

Starting with the 2017 product line...

The pecking order or cascading order is Term based license license then perpetual license. So with your Collection being a term based license the application will always grab those first. So to overcome this you need an option file and control who gets what license. Do you know how to configure one?

Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

BMcAnney — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 17:52:25 GMT

Mark,

Although the documentation available online states this (subscription always before perpetual), I have not found it to be true. For example, AutoCAD takes a perpetual AutoCAD license before taking a subscription AEC Collection license. I've verified this in actual testing. Before the collections licenses came out, I was worried subscription licenses would always be taken first. Autodesk even told me that would happen, via a support ticket through our reseller.

I'm aware of how to use an options file, but I can't think of how it would help in my case. I don't want to have the AEC Collection licenses available only to a few users, I need to have them available to everyone.

Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

Mark.Lancaster — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 17:57:02 GMT

@BMcAnney

Let me clarify that pecking order and give a little more in-depth..

Launch AutoCAD (network version).

License manager looks for a term based AutoCAD license.

If it can't find one then it looks for perpetual based AutoCAD License

If it can't find one then it looks for a related term based suite license

If if can't find one then it looks for a related perpetual based suite license

Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

BMcAnney — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 18:09:07 GMT

Your information conflicts with what is listed here: https://knowledge.autodesk.com/search-result/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Can-perpetual-and-multi-user-subscription-licenses-with-ETR-be-combined-in-a-single-license-file.html

subscription point product
subscription suite
perpetual point product
perpetual suite

Regardless, that information does seem to be wrong. I also have direct word from Autodesk that Collections fall between individual products and suites in the cascading order, so even if all of our licenses were subscription, the Collections would be used up first (despite containing extra software).

Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

Mark.Lancaster — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 18:38:37 GMT

@scott_baker can you chime in and add your insight into this? Is there a way to control not having the collection suite being pulled first. This will impact numerous people and like @BMcAnney has indicated defeat the purpose of purchasing the collections.

Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

scott_baker — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 18:46:46 GMT

The cascade order should be as follows:

Point product - multi-user
Point product - perpetual
Industry Collection - multi-user
Suite - perpetual

The best way to attempt to control it would be via an options file:

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/customer-service/network-license-administration/managing-network-licenses/controlling-license-usage/control-network-license-access-using-options-file

Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

BMcAnney — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 18:50:13 GMT

Unless I'm missing something, an options file won't really help in my case. I don't have just a few users that will need to access the additional software in the AEC Collection. Even if I did, those users would still pull the Collections licenses first when launching, e.g. Civil 3D. So unless the group was smaller than the number of AEC Collections licenses we own, it wouldn't help.

Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

scott_baker — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 18:57:01 GMT

How large is the group of users who do not need the extra software in the AEC Collection? You could define a set of just those users and use the EXCLUDE option to prevent them from pulling the Collection licenses which would force them over to the non-collection licenses.

Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

BMcAnney — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 19:01:39 GMT

I think that's really going to give the same result. Civil 3D is by far our most commonly used application, and everyone who needs the extra AEC Collection software (e.g. AVT) will also need to use Civil 3D on a daily basis. So those AEC Collection licenses will still be used up quickly by people using Civil 3D.

Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

Darin.Green — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 19:07:46 GMT

An alternative solution would be to configure two license servers 1 server hosting the Infrastructure license and the other hosting the collection licenses.

That way you can configure your client machines with the following system variable to point them to the Suite license server first then Collect if all of the suites are used up.

Environment Variable:

Name: ADSKFLEX_LICENSE_FILE

Value: @server1;@server2

The value field tells the client to find a license on server1 and if all of them are in use, then reach out to server2

This will avoid having to use an options file and determine which user can use collections of suite.

Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

BMcAnney — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 19:27:48 GMT

Hi Darin,

Interesting... you're positive it works that way? Doesn't the information here conflict? https://knowledge.autodesk.com/search-result/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/How-to-specify-license-servers-using-the-ADSKFLEX-LICENSE-FILE-environment-variable-s.html

"Autodesk licensing will search all servers listed in the environment variable and will use the lowest ranking license it finds first."

Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

Darin.Green — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 19:36:08 GMT

Yes, It should work because it'll look to the first server and find the lowest to highest available license (in this case Infrastructure Design Suite) if none are available it will move to the next server.

Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

BMcAnney — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 19:41:40 GMT

Thanks Darin -- I will give that a try. To me, the wording on that knowledge base article sounds like it would first check all license servers, then check the cascading order from all the available licenses. But I'll test it out and trust your experience on this one.

Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

BMcAnney — Tue, 30 Aug 2016 13:50:58 GMT

Our reseller did some testing for us on this potential solution, but unfortunately, it does not seem to work. The Collections licenses are used first, even if they are on the server that is listed second in the environment variable. Any other suggestions would be great... currently we are not able to make full use of the software in the AEC Collection due to this issue.

Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

Mark.Lancaster — Tue, 30 Aug 2016 14:08:26 GMT

@BMcAnney

With your collections being under a term based concept they will always get pulled first, meaning there's not much more you can do at this point if the method @Darin.Green didn't work.

So I have an idea... I'm wondering if you set up an option file and use the project variable method, you could change that variable on the clients machine through a batch file and then when you launched the application he would use the right license. @Darin.Green your thoughts? What about having custom shortcuts on the desktop that sets the project variable and then launches the Autodesk application?

Update: But (using this idea) when you run out of license for a particular suite/collection its not going to switch to another license automatically.

Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

Mark.Lancaster — Tue, 30 Aug 2016 17:16:56 GMT

@BMcAnney

This concept of using the project variable and an option file works. @Darin.Green has tested it and it does works. So you can control which license gets pulled based on this concept. Are you interested in doing something like this?

Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

Darin.Green — Wed, 31 Aug 2016 02:05:26 GMT

Your reseller should've provided a workaround such as this...

@Mark.Lancaster is absolutely correct. Good suggestion!

Before posting a reply, I needed to fully test the functionally and how it would actually work. To set this up correctly, I recommend using a batch file which the user will run. Once opened, the user is asked if they want to use a Collection license or not. Depending on their response, the LM_PROJECT environment variable will change accordingly.

The batch file will look like this:

@ECHO OFF

:::::: Ask user for which license to use?
echo Would you like to use a Collection License?(Y/N)

:::::: Capture user response, then make decision based on response
set INPUT=
set /P INPUT=Type input: %=%
If /I "%INPUT%"=="y" goto yes
If /I "%INPUT%"=="n" goto no

:::::: If the user chose not to use a collection license, change the project environment variable to suites
:no
SetX LM_PROJECT suites >nul
goto finally

:::::: If yes, set the variable to collection
:yes
SetX LM_PROJECT collection >nul
goto finally

:::::: Depending on how often the user close and open the Autodesk application,
:::::: ensure the Web Service Communication Center is shut down
:::::: otherwise the application may hang at the splash screen.
:finally
taskkill /f /im WSCommCntr4.exe >nul 2>nul

:::::: Exit CMD
exit

Once the command prompt is closed, launch the Autodesk application.

Since we're talking about building an options file to accomplish this, here's a video on creating this options file and what it should include...

By the way the OptBuilder application (Shown in this video) is not yet available for distribution. If you think it's a good app, give Thumbs up and we'll push for release.

Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

Mark.Lancaster — Wed, 31 Aug 2016 02:18:55 GMT

GOLD STAR AWARD

for @Darin.Green

Re: License cascading - Collections vs. Suites

BMcAnney — Wed, 31 Aug 2016 12:49:13 GMT

Thanks for the information. I'll have to consider this further, but I'm leaning against implementing something like this. This would definitely be a suitable workaround if I only cared about having those AEC Collection licenses available for a couple of occasionally used applications, e.g. Vehicle Tracking. But I also need these licenses available for additional Civil 3D usage when our IDSP licenses are all in use. Having the user prompted about which license to use when they launch Civil 3D is something I don't really want to introduce. The licensing system has always been transparent to our users, and I would rather not change that.

It seems like it would also fail if the user did not start the application via the provided custom shortcuts.

Frankly, this all seems like a lot of work to simply be able to use the products in the Collection we subscribed to. I'm not sure why Autodesk started encrypting the cascading order file several releases ago, but it's really hurting us right about now.