topic Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked? in HSM Support Forum

Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

Greg_Haisley — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 21:08:27 GMT

I have a machine with limited memory (64K) to be exact. Was trying to use 2D contour so I would get 2D arcs and get a smaller program size. Thought it would be nice to see the tool stay down while cutting the part. Can't find the magic button that enables this stay down function. Or has it ever worked is the question. If it is not ever going to work please remove the stay down UI.

FYI - In my part the 2D contour program is 33% smaller in size when compared to the 2D Adaptive program using the same step over settings, tool path tolerances and stock size. Just thought I pass this little tid bit of info along for those with older machines with small memory. I'm cutting aluminum so constant cutter load is not that big of a deal. The large program size is.

Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

aaron — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 03:05:23 GMT

Have to try increasing the maximum stay down distance under the linking tab? right below the keep tool down tick box

Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

Steinwerks — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 06:03:31 GMT

It only works for finish passes.

Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

scottmoyse — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 10:29:15 GMT

N. Stein wrote:

It only works for finish passes.

N. Stein wrote:
It only works for finish passes.

Surely it should work for all passes? Jeff?

Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

Laurens-3DTechDraw — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 11:21:33 GMT

Greg Haisley wrote:

FYI - In my part the 2D contour program is 33% smaller in size when compared to the 2D Adaptive program using the same step over settings, tool path tolerances and stock size. Just thought I pass this little tid bit of info along for those with older machines with small memory. I'm cutting aluminum so constant cutter load is not that big of a deal. The large program size is.

Greg Haisley wrote:
FYI - In my part the 2D contour program is 33% smaller in size when compared to the 2D Adaptive program using the same step over settings, tool path tolerances and stock size. Just thought I pass this little tid bit of info along for those with older machines with small memory. I'm cutting aluminum so constant cutter load is not that big of a deal. The large program size is.

Even with a very tight calculation tolerance for the adaptive? For these types of machines it's usually best to have a tolerance of 0.001 mm and than you can use a smoothing of 0.01 mm for finishing and 0.05 mm or so for roughing work

How does a 2D Pocket to by the way? I never use it so not sure if it's able to do this though.

Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

scottmoyse — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 11:25:19 GMT

Laurens-3DTechDraw wrote:

How does a 2D Pocket to by the way? I never use it so not sure if it's able to do this though.

Laurens-3DTechDraw wrote:
How does a 2D Pocket to by the way? I never use it so not sure if it's able to do this though.

I couldn't figure out how to do an open pocket with the 2D pocket command last week... using stock contours and the 2D contour does however give you an open 2d pocket toolpath. And as shown here, its possible to create an open pocket with 2D Adaptive.

Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

Greg_Haisley — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 12:27:02 GMT

Aaron Winter wrote:

Have to try increasing the maximum stay down distance under the linking tab? right below the keep tool down tick box

Aaron Winter wrote:
Have to try increasing the maximum stay down distance under the linking tab? right below the keep tool down tick box

I should have mentioned that setting - I had it set to 99 inches. Should be enough to keep the tool down.

Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

jeff.walters — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 15:11:15 GMT

Greg I’m running this past the developers because it doesn’t make sense to me either.

Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

Rob_Lockwood — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 15:44:44 GMT

N. Stein wrote:

It only works for finish passes.

N. Stein wrote:
It only works for finish passes.

And on finish passes, it requires that the lead-in/out positions between two passes produce a straight line that's clear of the previous pass in order to allow stay-down linking.. It's a system that works well in the actual designed usage case (spring pass etc) but not so well if you're trying to rough material, finish floors, etc.

Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

Steinwerks — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 17:11:30 GMT

Jeff Walters wrote:

Greg I’m running this past the developers because it doesn’t make sense to me either.

Jeff Walters wrote:
Greg I’m running this past the developers because it doesn’t make sense to me either.

Why didn't I get that answer in this thread? :-X

https://camforum.autodesk.com/index.php?topic=7305.0

Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

Steinwerks — Wed, 09 Dec 2015 01:22:32 GMT

Welp, having this problem now too. Why would this jump up? Stay down distance set to 10 inches. No roughing passes, repeat finish passes on.

Edit: it seems that it only treats the repeated pass as a finish pass.

Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Dec 2015 01:34:02 GMT

This might be obvious, but I was trying to get a "stay down" tool path the other day, and the initial machining boundary I had set would not let it stay down. Just a thought.

Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

Steinwerks — Wed, 09 Dec 2015 01:42:40 GMT

dthuren wrote:

This might be obvious, but I was trying to get a "stay down" tool path the other day, and the initial machining boundary I had set would not let it stay down. Just a thought.

dthuren wrote:
This might be obvious, but I was trying to get a "stay down" tool path the other day, and the initial machining boundary I had set would not let it stay down. Just a thought.

There is no boundary, just a 2D Contour operation.

Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Dec 2015 02:16:27 GMT

N. Stein wrote:

dthuren wrote:

This might be obvious, but I was trying to get a "stay down" tool path the other day, and the initial machining boundary I had set would not let it stay down. Just a thought.

There is no boundary, just a 2D Contour operation.

Crap I think I was using Adaptive sorry.

Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

Greg_Haisley — Wed, 09 Dec 2015 13:20:55 GMT

I don't want to come off as a CAM bitch, but there are many cases where this software offers up toolpath generation options yet the software ignores these user settings. In turn creating frustration for the user base.

A few examples of my point.

Plunge point
drill point
slot stock to leave on the side - the slot just follows the centerline of the shape, there is no side cutting done.
feed plane ignored for the use of rapid to depth, works in same cases but not when roughing out an open pocket
the stay down option as in this thread in all strategies
the whole turning module

My point is - if the software offers up a different tool path options. Then these options should work. Is this too much to ask?

Does any developer have the responsibility of checking all tool path options with regards to different strategies?

Remember your mission ADSK.

Our mission

To be the leader in CAM technology, by delivering truly innovative, intuitive and high performance software that provides our customers with the competitive edge they are searching for.

Rant over - have a great day everybody.

Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

lenny_1962 — Wed, 09 Dec 2015 13:44:45 GMT

Greg Nicely put.....

I'll joint you as a CAM Bitch 8)

Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

Laurens-3DTechDraw — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 08:10:19 GMT

As far as I know it doesn't work when you have stock contours enabled.

Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

Greg_Haisley — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 12:56:15 GMT

Laurens-3DTechDraw wrote:

As far as I know it doesn't work when you have stock contours enabled.

Laurens-3DTechDraw wrote:
As far as I know it doesn't work when you have stock contours enabled.

Why would that scenario be important? The whole idea is for less code in my case. One move back to the next cut is less code than a retract, make the same move in X and Y then an approach in Z. Makes no sense.

Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

Laurens-3DTechDraw — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 12:58:43 GMT

Greg Haisley wrote:

Why would that scenario be important? The whole idea is for less code in my case. One move back to the next cut is less code than a retract, make the same move in X and Y then an approach in Z. Makes no sense.

Greg Haisley wrote:
Why would that scenario be important? The whole idea is for less code in my case. One move back to the next cut is less code than a retract, make the same move in X and Y then an approach in Z. Makes no sense.

Because with the stock contours enabled the operation get's a little more clever and understands it can't always take the shortest route to the next pass. Because stock could be in it's way. If you don't have stock contours on and set it to make multiple passes and have the keep tool down it usually does exactly that but that kind of only works for finishing or when having bigger lead radii than step-over.

Re: Has 2D contour stay down ever worked?

Greg_Haisley — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 13:21:04 GMT

Laurens-3DTechDraw wrote:

Because with the stock contours enabled the operation get's a little more clever and understands it can't always take the shortest route to the next pass. Because stock could be in it's way. If you don't have stock contours on and set it to make multiple passes and have the keep tool down it usually does exactly that but that kind of only works for finishing or when having bigger lead radii than step-over.

Laurens-3DTechDraw wrote:
Because with the stock contours enabled the operation get's a little more clever and understands it can't always take the shortest route to the next pass. Because stock could be in it's way. If you don't have stock contours on and set it to make multiple passes and have the keep tool down it usually does exactly that but that kind of only works for finishing or when having bigger lead radii than step-over.

The whole idea is to use the stock contour, so that the toolpath is smart and knows were the stock is. The toolpath doesn't cut air. With your idea it will cut air and that defeats the idea of an innovative toolpath does it not?

I was expecting the tool stay down to behave like the 2D adaptive. Not like the 2D pocket where the tool path snakes from one pass to the next. Another question is - if this gets fixed where's the high feed rate value for the tool stay down setting? I see the lift amount but no high feed rate value.

If I were calling the shots I'd just remove this as it does not perform as it should.

Looks like this along with other strategies are half baked. ???

Just like cake that's half baked - looks good on the outside but a mess on the inside.