topic Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud" in Fusion Support Forum

Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

M>oolWorks — Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:25:45 GMT

Curious if anyone can give any official input on this?

In 2020 we are aiming to be 100% offline with our design and manufacturing. This is partly customer driven, we lost two very large customer opportunities due to our use of "the cloud", and partially internally driven, due to issues. I can associate 90% of my lost work time, errors, crashes, and issues with "the cloud". I realize that may put me in the minority. I like Fusion, it has slowly grown on me, but I am looking at software choices for next spring and am trying to decide which direction we want to go.

I would be ecstatic to purchase Fusion and continue using it, however my Autodesk salesmen tells me that no Autodesk products fit this requirement.

Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

TheCADWhisperer — Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:31:58 GMT

@M&GToolWorks wrote:
In 2020 we are aiming to be 100% offline with our design and manufacturing....however my Autodesk salesmen tells me that no Autodesk products fit this requirement.

Other than for license activation - Autodesk Inventor Professional and Inventor CAM meet this requirement. I recommend that you find a new reseller. Who is this reseller - name the source of information.

Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

M>oolWorks — Tue, 10 Dec 2019 23:18:09 GMT

The salesperson is from IMAGINiT Technologies. As I understood it over the phone, Autodesk programs require the internet to install, they require the internet for license validation (done periodically?), and of course for maintenance updates, there is no "physical" update.

Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

TheCADWhisperer — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:12:23 GMT

Does this person have a name and phone number?

There are multiple ways to install, one of which is essentially the same as having on DVD.

The VAR Could make the DVD(s) for you. Same with updates.

I will have to check on the periodic license verification. I suspect that it is not nearly as onerous as you might have gotten impression. In any case I suspect that license verification has become a fact of life for all legal CAD software users.

I can’t speak for Autodesk, but everything I have heard is Fusion is a cloud solution.

If that doesn’t work for you, there are other software solutions.

Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

sonstwienix — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 12:11:33 GMT

The argument that there is other software is flawed. Fusion places itself in a very particular spot on the market. If you look left and right to SolidWorks, Creo or Inventor, you will find that they are simply different. They require a somewhat different way of thinking and design approaches. Neglecting the buggyness that has creeped in over the last years, Fusion is very efficient when it comes to simple things.

However, having this attachment to the cloud is ridicules. There is no valid argument why this is a MUST and not a "nice to have - opt in". And even then there are other platforms for cloud storage and sharing data between work stations, there is simply no need for this being integrated in Fusion. From a user standpoint, the whole cloud f.uckery is an extreme turn off and yes, most issues (besides the bugs that have creeped in over the last years) arise from the "cloud".

The development resources this forced cloud-BS draws away from.. bugfixes for example.. is really bad for the user experience. Try updating Fusion which activated firewall, that blocks the changed executable after the update. Holy *****, why cant an application not start without internet these days?? Staring at blank white screens seems the pinnacle of true productivity in Autodesks mind.

Yes, i love Fusion, yes i hate their policies. Its unhealthy for me to work with it. A bit like one would imagine an abusive marriage.

Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

M>oolWorks — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 14:53:06 GMT

Of course they have a name and a phone number. Do you publicly post your name and phone number every time you make a mistake? The internet would be plastered with my information if that were the case!

I believe NX calls this "node locked"? SolidWorks has a similar ability I believe but I cannot remember what they call it.

"In any case I suspect that license verification has become a fact of life for all legal CAD software users."

I have only worked at two companies that has a design computer connected to the internet. My own, and a small machinery builder. Everywhere else I have worked the computers are isolated from the intranet. Up until 2 years ago the design computer I was using had no access to the internet. It was from 2006 and finally started developing issues. My fully licensed copy of Autodesk Mechanical was working just fine...

Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

TheCADWhisperer — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 15:22:49 GMT

I know a couple of people at IMAGINiT Technologies and was going to see if I could pull one of them into this discussion to explain the current license validation for other Autodesk non-cloud based products.
I also know some SolidWorks people that I could probably bring into the discussion.

Bottom line - Fusion 360 is a cloud-based solution by design, and so you will have to make some decisions about what works in your environment going forward into the future.

Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

Anonymous — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 15:02:49 GMT

@TheCADWhisperer wrote:
Bottom line - Fusion 360 is a cloud-based solution by design, and so you will have to make some decisions about what works in your environment going forward into the future.

Reality check: "cloud" is modern day buzzword speak for "client-server" where the data is stored server-side and, by default, the server is remote hosted, and there is some set of RPC calls (web/json, protobuf, grpc, ...).

There are plenty of big dollar scenarios that will never be able to use external cloud services (aerospace, medical, ...) that typically license an "on-prem" or "self-hosted" setup of the cloud service that consists of a few VMs or containers (see https://www.atlassian.com/enterprise/data-center).

The whole point of the term "cloud" is that it's [supposed to be] non-specific. When someone can point to a specific thing and say "yes, this is the cloud", they're wrong.

So if Fusion *is* designed for cloud, it should be entirely capable of running exclusively on-prem compatible with, say, ITAR.

-Oliver

Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

TheCADWhisperer — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 15:22:12 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
So if Fusion *is* designed for cloud, it should be entirely capable of running exclusively on-prem compatible with, say, ITAR

Autodesk (and other companies) already have other products for that purpose.
Fusion 360 is an experiment to control your data in a new way.
Other companies are making the same experiment.

You can make a due-diligence decision about what CAD product you use.

Your decision!

Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

M>oolWorks — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 19:43:41 GMT

In my experience finding that information is taking much more work than I expected...

To get the necessary information to make apples to apples comparisons of pricing and requirements has proven to be much harder than I expected.

Only as comparison, last year I bought a new machining center, I talked to several sales reps, Mazak, Haas, Doosan, etc and ultimately purchased a Brother. All of the sales people I spoke with were knowledgeable about their products capabilities. All of them (except Doosan because of FANUC) were quick and easy to make apples to apples comparisons of capabilities, options, and costs. I guess I lucked out with the salesman that I worked with.

I suppose that the salesman who I am dealing with are knowledgeable about their respective products, but since they do so much more than what my questions pertain to, they may not be very knowledgeable in regards to the machining capabilities.

Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

M>oolWorks — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 17:48:38 GMT

My sales rep actually called me today to check in and see if I was interested in buying before the end of the year. We discussed this topic, specifically about Inventor internet requirements, and he sent me this.

"For both single-user and multi-user access, an internet connection is required for initial download and installation of software. For single-user access desktop software, users need to connect to the internet to activate the software and connect at least once every 30 days after initial activation to continue using the product. "

Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

TheCADWhisperer — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 19:00:15 GMT

@M&GToolWorks wrote:
"For both single-user and multi-user access, an internet connection is required for initial download ~~and installation of software~~.

For unfiltered and tested information - I recommend that you post your questions to the Installation & Licensing forum. There are two users in particular over there that know all of the ins and outs of this topic.

@mdavis22569 and @Mark.Lancaster

An internet connection is required for initial download BUT NOT for installation of the software. (You will need to Activate the license however. I normally run in 30-day trial mode to make sure all is well before activating.)

These three files can be download to any computer anywhere in the world. Once these three files are downloaded they can be copied to a USB or other drive media for access on any computer.

Just like having a DVD (or USB drive) shipped to you like in years past.

I just found this on the Autodesk website http:\\manage.autodesk.com

but not sure if it is still valid.

Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

Mark.Lancaster — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 19:33:34 GMT

@TheCADWhisperer Thanks for the tag..

@M&GToolWorks

Here's the 30 day internet activation workflow for single user subscription type of license (sign in or serial # based).

First launch after installation, requires a live internet connection to activate

Second day launch..

Live internet in background: Checks and continues on.
No live internet in background: Goes into a 30 day off line counter - clock starts ticking

Third day launch

Live internet in background: Checks, resets off-line counter and continues on.
No live internet in background: Counter ticks down another day

Once it reaches 7 to 10 days left on the off-line counter, it prompts to sign in for activation.

Once it reaches 0 days, product will not work until you connect to the internet.

Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

M>oolWorks — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 19:45:25 GMT

So if I understand correctly, Inventor will not work on a computer with no internet connection.

I can install it, but I can't activate it.

Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

Mark.Lancaster — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 19:56:20 GMT

@M&GToolWorks

Yes and no.. Let me explain...

If you have a carried over perpetual licnese or an active perpetual licnese serial # for Inventor then internet is only required for initial activation. After that it doesn't "phone" home.

If you have a carried over active network perpetual license or a multi-user (network) subscription, no internet is even required.

If you have a single user subscription (sign in or serial # based), then the workflow I stated above is in play. But again it can run up to 30 days without an internet connection.

Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

M>oolWorks — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 20:01:30 GMT

We have no licensing, no carry over, no nothing. We are looking at purchasing.

The computer has zero ability to connect to the internet.

Does Autodesk have a product that will work on this computer?

As I read your post, no, it must have the internet to work.

Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

Mark.Lancaster — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 20:18:19 GMT

@M&GToolWorks

Purchase a multi-user license and install the license manager and there's no internet connection required. Update: Forgot to indicate, multi-user (network) license cost more than standalone/single user. But if you don't have an internet connection for that machine then you'll need to go that route.

But you would also have to download the software with internet connection from another machine or pay a small amount like 25 or 35 dollars to have actual installation media set to you.

There's option..

Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

M>oolWorks — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 20:17:24 GMT

Thank you for taking the time to explain the options.

Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Dec 2019 05:44:39 GMT

@TheCADWhisperer wrote:
Fusion 360 is an experiment to control your data in a new way.

Just so we're clear, what you said is: "I don't understand this topic but I'm going to type anyway."

Fusion happens to talk to a server for licensing, profile syncing and data backup. AutoDesk happen to run some of the servers it needs, which happen to be available on the public internet. It is likely trivial for them to provide a licensing model that lets corporations run their own on-prem instances of the server(s), and then it would be possible to run Fusion without accessing the public internet.

However, Fusion is perfectly capable of operating offline without talking to a server. The data is all cached stored (they say 'cached' but that's theatrics) locally, there's no reason Fusion couldn't have an entirely offline version for which they charge a premium.

Re: Will Fusion EVER move away from "the cloud"

lichtzeichenanlage — Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:54:10 GMT

Aren't they using Amazon's cloud services?