topic Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video in Fusion Support Forum

3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

Anonymous — Tue, 18 Aug 2020 12:42:15 GMT

This post is a final act of desperation.

In the video at the bottom of this post I describe how broken the current SpaceMouse implemetation is, and how great the device could be if these, and other problems, were resolved.

I fear it will never be fixed due to these direct quotes...

'The navigation with the SpaceMouse in Fusion 360 was implemented and is maintained by Autodesk directly.' -3Dconnexion

'Those options are controlled by the spacemouse drivers that 3Dconnexion has crafted for their support of Fusion 360.' - Autodesk

If anyone can help me work out HOW the driver and Fusion 360 communicate, please help me out. Does Fusion use the 3Dconnexion SDK to just read the axis values and control the camera transform internally to Fusion 360, OR does 3Dconnexion remotely control the camera transform from within the driver software somehow. I assume the support is not add-in or script based. If both companies deny all responsibility for maintaining the SpaceMouse functionality, then me posting this fix and offering my code for free is all in vain. Thanks for watching!

SOUND REQUIRED:

And yes... I did actually program my own faux Fusion 360 just to show how things could, and should, be... 😂

Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Aug 2020 11:59:16 GMT

@Phil.E

3Dconnexion have officially acknowledged the issues described in my video in the original post! Below is a statement calling on Autodesk developers to work with them to fix it... It seems it will take both companies to fix the issues as suggested. Please help me find a contact within Autodesk that can work with 3Dconnexion, or pass me on to someone who can, many thanks!

-----------------------------------------------------------------
The situation is as follows: 3Dconnexion created and maintains plugins for some of the major applications. For example: NX, Creo, Solid Edge, SolidWorks, Inventor, AutoCAD, Maya, 3dsmax, …

Most of them handle the navigation with the SpaceMouse and the button mapping. But some just handle the button mapping like the addin for NX, Creo, Inventor and AutoCAD (navigation is done by the application). And then there are many many applications that integrated the support for the SpaceMouse into their application by making use of our SDK. Like Fusion 360.

This means that Autodesk had integrated the navigation with the SpaceMouse whereas the driver provides the navigation data and the application/Fusion calculates the navigation.

Our SDK provides quite some powerful possibilities so the best would be if the developers from Autodesk get in touch with our development team. I will forward this request to our ISV manager so that he can push this.
- : 3Dconnexion

BUG TRACKING NO. ISV-166

-----------------------------------------

Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

Phil.E — Thu, 11 Mar 2021 05:30:07 GMT

Did you happen to get a name or email? I'm glad to work with them. You can send to me in a PM if you have these.

(UPDATE, MARCH 10, 2021: I have the contact of the engineer at 3Dconnexion and they are eager to help. We are also eager to work with them to implement this fix)

There is an improvement ticket logged for this, based on your post here. To be honest, this is not a high priority. You seem very enthusiastic about this and I want you to have realistic expectations. If any other readers are keenly interested in this improvement, it would be good to hear your voices on this thread.

(UPDATE, MARCH 10, 2021: Thanks for all your passionate responses. It's clearly very important to you and we are looking more closely at it. I cannot make any promises about when this could be delivered, or if it ever will be delivered for legal reasons. Take heart that all your valuable feedback is guiding our judgement over this issue thanks for all your input.)

(ref: FUS-71148)

Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Aug 2020 16:39:27 GMT

Hi @Phil.E

PM sent. Many thanks.

Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

Anonymous — Sat, 21 Nov 2020 06:35:48 GMT

I am keenly interested in getting this fixed.

I recently rediscovered my SpaceMouse that I had used extensively with SketchUp - it greatly enhanced workflow. Then after getting it hooked up to Fusion360 I quickly also rediscovered why I had not been using it.

I find it ridiculous that something so obvious, so basic, (being able to manipulate the 3D view without constantly fighting the horizon tilt) has been ignored.

There are other members that have voiced similar opinions in this thread https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-design-validate/constrained-orbit-is-not-working-with-spacemouse/td-p/6821472

Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

Anonymous — Sat, 21 Nov 2020 06:49:56 GMT

There is an improvement ticket logged for this, based on your post here. To be honest, this is not a high priority. You seem very enthusiastic about this and I want you to have realistic expectations. If any other readers are keenly interested in this improvement, it would be good to hear your voices on this thread.
(ref: FUS-71148)

Actually there have been quite a few people asking for this to be solved, as far back as 2014, perhaps it could be moved up a little in the priority list seeing how it has been an issue with so many people for more than half a decade?

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-ideastation-archived/constrained-orbit-with-3d-connexion-space-mice/idi-p/6956692

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-ideastation-archived/space-pilot-lock-axis/idi-p/5421537

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-design-validate/lock-horizon-horizontally-for-orbit/m-p/6909991#M100737

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-design-validate/lock-horizon-in-fusion-360/td-p/6909876

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-ideastation-archived/constrained-orbit-with-3d-connexion-mice/idi-p/8554179

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-support/3d-connexion-spacemouse-spin-also-rotates/td-p/9096200

https://forum.3dconnexion.com/viewtopic.php?t=39140

Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

zoomzoom707 — Mon, 11 Jan 2021 21:51:17 GMT

@Phil.E I would also like to see this feature added, fixed or completed.

Zbrush finally implemented 3dconnexion support last month. This was after users had been asking in a zbrush central thread since at least December of 2010. To Pixologic's credit, their implementation appears to be excellent. Anecdotally, there seems to be a pattern on support forums for 3D software with incomplete or no support for 3dconnexion hardware. Said developers claim 3Dconnexion is ultimately responsible for lack of support development. Meanwhile, within parallel discussions taking place on the 3Dconnexion forums, 3Dconnexion developers claim the 3D software developers are ultimately responsible.

So, I'm not a developer. Based on this however, it would appear possible that implementing 3dconnexion support is roughly as pleasant as walking through red hot coals while barefoot? If that's the case, can we do anything to help? Would your office be receptive to us crowd funding Chinese food or pizza for the team or individual that would fix this, if that helps get things done?

I'm being serious. I like fusion360 and I would like it even more with this feature. Thanks.

Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

Phil.E — Thu, 11 Mar 2021 05:31:57 GMT

Thanks for the update to this 4 month old thread. As you can read above we learned in August that the SDK was the key. Prior to that we obviously didn't know this. I guess that's the pattern you talk about? Anyway, it's all logged. And in the spirit of transparency, there are no plans to implement this at this time.

(UPDATE, MARCH 10, 2021: It is now March, not January any longer and this is no longer a valid statement. Thanks for all your feedback on this thread.)

Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

georegulus — Mon, 01 Feb 2021 15:55:23 GMT

I'd love to see this feature in Fusion360, I just got a spacemouse. Great work btw @Anonymous on that demo.

Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

Fritzache — Wed, 10 Feb 2021 15:18:52 GMT

I subscribe to this thread!

I own a Spacemouse Enterprise and just sits idle because the Horizon problem.

In sketchup works perfectly.

Please Autodesk, please 3Dconnexion: MAKE A HORIZON LOCK feature for Fusion360

Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

stephen_mcmillan — Thu, 11 Feb 2021 02:23:42 GMT

Adding my voice to this request. In Solidworks we have this option.

Using the 6-DOF spacemouse with the single constraint of keeping the horizon horizontal (keeping Y-up or Z-up according to user preference on this setting) makes modelling so much more effective and natural. Behavior similar to pressing the middle mouse button (or wheel) with Fusion 360 set to emulate Solidworks mouse style.

Please please please.

Stephen McMillan

Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

david_j_calabrese — Thu, 11 Feb 2021 09:12:18 GMT

Phil E., I fear the situation is actually worse than presented in the original post, as there is a definite bug in how the rotations are applied from the SpaceMouse (two rotations being applied instead of just one for twist, effectively randomizing the camera). A "work around" would be a lock mentioned (forcibly removing one axis), although this is quite limiting the usefulness of the device, so the fix here would be to actually fix the rotation code.

The latest update of Fusion 360 that just came out does not address this rotation issue, and, for an application with "built in" 3Dconnexion support, there seems to be no 3Dconnexion settings dialog that I could find (whereas nearly all other apps have some sort of configuration panel: 3ds max, Maya, Unity, ZBrush, etc.).

As someone who just recently picked up a 3Dconnexion controller and has been trying various pieces of software, the one app that I thought would be a "no brainer" to have a flawless implementation was Autodesk Fusion 360, and I was surprised that it largely just doesn't even work (sorry to say).

Quoting 3Dconnexion's website: "General Note: Implementation should take you 1-2 days to get correct motion depending on how familiar you are with your existing transformation code. ... If it looks like it is taking more time than that, you might want to contact us again directly." It sort of sounds like you're saying that Autodesk engineers don't have two days to implement this correctly? Even with 3Dconnexion willing to lend a hand?

jwick from 3Dconnexion who's written much of the driver code for the device and numerous implementations including a Raspberry Pi application, would probably lend any required insights. Also, one of the nicest implementations I've seen is in Maya, so perhaps a Maya developer could send over a reference file, etc.?

Long story short, I suspect that since Pixologic has suddenly made 3Dconnexion devices "mainstream", they will just get more popular in this sector. So +1 for a fix, and perhaps marking this thread as Unsolved.

Cheers.

Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

Phil.E — Thu, 11 Feb 2021 17:04:16 GMT

Hi,

Thanks for the detailed note.

You mention not finding any settings for 3Dconnexion, and that Maya has a settings dialog. Can you post a screenshot of the Maya control panel for spacemouse? It would be great to see what you are talking about.

There is a set of settings controls provided by 3Dconnexion, have you seen this?

The advanced settings and buttons settings are pretty detailed wrt motion, speed, button assignments, etc.

I'm also surprised you can't get it to work for you. Assuming you have the latest drivers from 3Dconnexion, you should be able to use the device to orbit. Here's an example showing orbit and pre-set view rotation.

I'm curious what you mean by "largely just doesn't even work". Outside of the fixed axis rotation, what else doesn't work? Please make a video using Autodesk Screencast if possible. I can link your new reported bugs to the existing case for fixed axis support.

Thanks,

Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

stephen_mcmillan — Thu, 11 Feb 2021 17:15:46 GMT

I'm also not sure about the issue David is experiencing, but it's not related to the original post.

This is about a request for "lock the horizon" or "Keep default modelling orientation (I.E.: Y-up or Z-up) when constrained orbit is selected".

Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

stephen_mcmillan — Thu, 11 Feb 2021 17:31:52 GMT

Here's a video of the request:

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/community/screencast/822fc8ff-22a1-41d9-8358-63884b0a029a

Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

Phil.E — Thu, 11 Feb 2021 17:48:24 GMT

Thanks for the narrated video, I added the link to the improvement request.

Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

david_j_calabrese — Tue, 16 Feb 2021 06:59:31 GMT

Thinking on it more, starting with a "turntable" style horizon lock feature as a work-around is a great first step! Arguably, 80% of folks want a "turntable" style orbit versus something that's completely unconstrained anyway.

If you want to repro the rotation bug yourself, simply turn off everything except "twist" in the 3Dconnexion Advanced Settings for Fusion 360 -- it should look like the below image. I believe that if only this axis is enabled in the driver, and Fusion 360 does anything more than a simple "turntable" rotation around Y, there would likely be a bug.

If you want to see a video clip of the issue, I have a capture with narration (this is using another method, Dominant mode, which essentially only inputs a single, "most activated" axis):

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/community/screencast/95a0a9c7-1053-47f9-9f20-57e93af34083

From 3Dconnexion's brochure on Dominant mode:

Thanks for the attention on this. If I get time, I'll post videos of "twist" rotation working as expected in Blender and/or Maya.

Cheers.

Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

stephen_mcmillan — Tue, 16 Feb 2021 17:42:36 GMT

Thanks David.

This is definitely an issue. I tested it. Please see the video below.

The issue is that it is rotating about the "screen vertical" instead of the "Model Up" (Y or Z, depending on preference).

Please see screen capture below.

Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

stephen_mcmillan — Tue, 16 Feb 2021 17:48:57 GMT

Sorry, no attached screencast. Forum bounced it back saying I was overposting and need to wait 3600 seconds! I'll try again later.

Re: 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Horizon Lock Constrain Orbit Missing Feature Video

david_j_calabrese — Wed, 17 Feb 2021 02:16:00 GMT

Thank you for the insight, Stephen—it is indeed rotating around screen Y. Is this a long-standing CAD standard of some kind?

That being said, the Orbit Tool in Fusion 360 has two modes, Constrained Orbit and Free Orbit, and it seems the 3Dconnexion is forever locked in "Free Orbit", resulting in screen Y rotations. I believe Fusion 360 should reach parity then and either switch the 3Dconnexion orbit mode when a new Orbit Tool option is chosen from that drop-down (ideally), or add a 3Dconnexions Settings dialog where things like Orbit Mode can be chosen (perhaps even including Lock Horizon, etc.).

So it's probably back on Autodesk then to just add some code to check that setting and switch which matrices they're using for the device.

Again, much like Adobe likely started getting more and more requests to support something called "pressure sensitivity" when the Wacom tablets when mainstream, I suspect the 3Dconnexion devices will just get more and more popular in 3D from here on out.