topic Re: NEW Tool Library in Fusion Manufacture Forum

NEW Tool Library

veso58S5W — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 03:17:06 GMT

😫that's first impression.
What was the reason to change?
Why mess up good things?
How you organize tools? If I want list to be by #. Or by diameters?
Renumber Tool, now I must go through several operations.

Re: NEW Tool Library

Captain-DJ — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 11:05:36 GMT

I also don´t like the new library !

It is slow.

Text is very light, not good to read.

Sorting not possible.

If i change the tool number, i must set it also in the other 2 lines (T D H offsets). I don´t use D and H but i think other use this.

If i unlock the cutting speed and change it, only one value was changing to rpm. The helical rpm must set manually.

So if you made an new library, why not add new useful things ?

1. Please add a finish speed and feed ! That´s a useful thing.

2. Add the value "feed by turns". At the moment this value will only show in the section of vertical feed

3. Add a offset for XY and Z. So if i use a tool for roughing and finishing i can add as example XY 0,1mm Z0,2mm and this offset will add to my operations automatically if i use restmill option.

4. Tool number must be easy changeable directly in the toollist of my part

Re: NEW Tool Library

christopher.cooperVHK2N — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 11:48:18 GMT

I am the product owner for the team that is developing the new tool library.

Firstly, Thank you for your honest feedback on the new library, it is very valuable for the team to understand how the work done is perceived by users. The new tool library will look to integrate old and new functionality in order for you to have an overall better experience. Your listed concerns over the functionality have already been taken into consideration and these may not be available to view on the pre-release version that you will be using.

However, you should see these implemented in later releases.

Please continue to use the new library and feel free to message me with any feedback

Re: NEW Tool Library

raymus.houston — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:06:13 GMT

I tried to use the new tool library preview briefly and I don't see myself being able to use it at all in its current state.

My first impression is that a lot of the solid functionality from the old tool library was made more clunky, slow, and less usable if it wasn't completely removed.

Examples:

- I find the new filtering UI to be slow in the sense that it feels like I am clicking way more to apply the filters I want and prefer the small buttons with dropdown dialogs from the old UI.

- Renumbering has to be done one tool at a time. I can't keep using the preview without being able to do things like this quickly.

- No ordering functions to quickly organize tools by just clicking the fields listed above the tools. This worked fine in the old tool library and is now completely gone.

I understand that this is an early preview of what is to come, but it seems like too much effort has gone into overhauling the look of the UI to the detriment of the speed of use and overall usability of it.

I would like something more like the old tool library, but with enhancements made to the improve functionality like the speed and feed presets, rather than just the look of the UI which I think had less issues.

Re: NEW Tool Library

christopher.cooperVHK2N — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:57:15 GMT

Hello Captain - DJ,

Thanks for your feedback. I am interested in your suggestions in adding the functionality below and was wondering if you could spend a little time elaborating on the points?

So if you made an new library, why not add new useful things ?

1. Please add a finish speed and feed ! That´s a useful thing.

- Is this functionality achieved through multi speeds and feeds? If not how do you envisage it working?

2. Add the value "feed by turns". At the moment this value will only show in the section of vertical feed

- Does this not refer to the "Use feed per revolution" check box in speeds and feeds tab?

3. Add a offset for XY and Z. So if i use a tool for roughing and finishing i can add as example XY 0,1mm Z0,2mm and this offset will add to my operations automatically if i use restmill option.

- This is an interesting concept which I like - so if you are roughing with a 10mm end mill you would add 0.1mm to the X and the tool path generated would replicate a 10.2mm diameter cutter essentially leaving 0.1mm per side?

4. Tool number must be easy changeable directly in the tool list of my part.

- Agree completely with this and have looked at several tasks that will offer more functionality in this area.

Thankyou for your feedback so far on the library - please note that the new tool library is on feature flag at present and is not officially released therefore some of the functionality suggested has been already developed and the development team continue to work hard to ensure that it meets everyone's expectations on release.

Thanks

Chris

Re: NEW Tool Library

Leo_Dyn — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 18:47:20 GMT

I'm all for new functionality, but the new look and speed is, well, it seems to be part of the trend in a lot of consumer items, making things look bigger and possibly prettier, but taking away showing the most information in a clean format.

IMO, the older format was a much more usable (not to mention FASTER!) interface.

I'd also echo most of the input from the posts further above on some cool new features. (especially a separate data for finishing as compared to roughing.

Re: NEW Tool Library

Captain-DJ — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 19:22:10 GMT

@christopher.cooperVHK2N

Hello and nice to see anyone read my post here 😉

I am from Germany and my English is not so good. So i will hope you understand me.

1. Not really know what you mean with "multi speed". On the operation passes tap i can set an finish feed. In the tool setting this feed will not shown. So it can be useful to define a finish feed in tool setting.

2. Only a information line or eventually a textbox to see the feed per revolution. Some ma machines (Mazak...) show this value in the screen. So this is what i see every time everyday.

3. Yes, adding an offset. But not adding to the tool, just adding to the operation in passes tab. So if i add this offset in tool settings, this values will set automatically to the "passes" setting if i switch Stock to leave" on.

Now i am writing about this, i am not sure this is an good idea. The idea is that some tools are only for roughing. If i generate an operation sometimes i forgot to set "Stock to leave" on.

So that´s the reason. Or if it is a roughing only tool then it could be help the offset is always on and i don´t must set "stock to leave"...if i don´t must check it on i can not forget this 😉

I see that´s more complicated that i think before.

Re: NEW Tool Library

veso58S5W — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 02:44:28 GMT

Thank you for quick reply.
My observation, so far.

1. I like new Tool Numbering.
When I started with CNC several months ago, I didn't know nothing. I had numbered tool, by something, thought that machine (hahahahaha) will somehow read that, it didn't and BANG, my first Z plunge in to the Al block. Thankfully I am fast on RED BUTTON🤣
So, it is good that Tool Number is "locked". I would also add line Storage Tool Number - the one what is not used in the Post, but rather as where tool is located in the shop.

2. I agree that color is too light. Specially for older people LOL, and after looking on the screen for hours.

3. Listing MUST be selectable, by ....... X ....X ....X. MUST.
Open sample Library. What a mess. I spent 5 minutes, literally looking for 1/2" drill.

4. Very useful feature Feed & Speed, based on the material. BUT, where it is when you do Add Tool? I want Spot Drill. There it is in Add Tool, but Feed & Speed is just generic.

Re: NEW Tool Library

veso58S5W — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 02:54:34 GMT

.... for some reason didn't let me type more? Anyway....

4. yes, Presets for feed & Speed. They should be available for Custom tool making. On the left side where is Preset 1.

5. Doing that, trying to make Spot Drill, I realized that if I take drill from Sample Tools, let say 1/2" and I change lengths by hand, I can't get graphic representation in the Cutter field to represent Spot Drill (like when you select it from Add Tool). I would add some kind of hierarchy, like Drill-Long/Spot/High Helix/Centre so when you chose some of them, parameters already jump in.

This is so far all, for now.

Please, bring back vertical tool columns, Number, Name, Size, Kind (?, i made libraries separate, for all the kinds I have)

Re: NEW Tool Library

christopher.cooperVHK2N — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 09:23:48 GMT

Hello raymus.houston,

Thanks for the feedback!

The development team have previously been working on taking the functionality from the old library with regards to 'Filters' - 'Re numbering' - 'Ordering functions'. As you only have the preview version you will not see this yet so I understand your concerns over the perceived digression. At this point in time we are focusing on the speed improvements that you rightly pointed out as a concern.

I am interested in any suggested improvements you have to add additional functionality in the new library that would benefit you and other users in future releases.

Thanks

Chris

Re: NEW Tool Library

christopher.cooperVHK2N — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 10:08:33 GMT

Hello CAPTAIN-DJ,

I understand you fine!

In the Feeds and feeds tab the concept would be for you to create a preset for say, 'Facemill Steel rough ' and 'Facemill Steel finish' then you can quickly select between the cutting data on selecting tool (Please see attachment). I think this will quicker and more consistent than using the operation passes tab as then tick box is not always available.

Regarding the tool offset I think there are a couple of existing ways to do this already and using the stock option as you pointed out is the most common and easiest solution with this.

All the best

Chris

Re: NEW Tool Library

christopher.cooperVHK2N — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 10:35:25 GMT

Hello veso58s5W,

This is all really good stuff so thanks for taking the time to feed this back.

It is very interesting that both yourself and CAPTAIN-DJ feel the icons are difficult to read so I have created a task for the team and it will evaluated for development.

Also, you comments regarding the spotdrill has highlighted a bug which I have also created a task for so thank you for this!

I hope you continue to post on the forum regarding the new tool library and feel assured that your opinions are being considered and valued.

Thanks

Chris

Re: NEW Tool Library

vworpi — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 20:43:01 GMT

I know it's currently a preview, but I don't really like the new library.

Old library gave us a sorted list (by tool number), with tool type (image), number, dia , type, description.

New library, god knows what the sort is, number, dia, shoulder length(!), description. Doesn't really flow to the eye, difficult to parse. Was the world crying out for shoulder length in the description? If you must have something wouldn't flute length be better (actually, just leave it blank).

Where are all the selectable columns from the old library?

Doesn't look like you can select multiple libraries.

Did Add Tool have a blow to the head and forget about form tools?

It's...so...slow......Seriously, it's like every click has a 1 second lag.

The old cutter geometry drawing was nice and readable. The new one you have to click on the fields to highlight what the size is.

Multiple feeds and speeds will be a welcome addition, I'm not testing it on a production job though.

Suggestions:-

How about being able to modify the coolant and break control settings from the info tab rather than editing the tool? And a bulk edit tool similar to compare and edit in toolpaths? Would be useful for setting multiple tools with similar cutting data in one hit.

Obviously, sorting and multiple library selection.

Can a default holder be set per library? Annoying when you're working on a mixture of BT40 & BT50 machines and think your tool holders will clear. Even more annoying when you have to edit a couple of dozen tools after the fact.

Similarly, can we set a default tool library in the machine configurations?

When editing holder or shank geometry, can you number balloon the geometry in the generated sketch. Would make it much easier to parse the sizes.

Whatever happened to sub-folders/libraries? I thought some progress was made on this months ago?

Re: NEW Tool Library

vworpi — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 20:56:38 GMT

I agree that the new icons and layout need a bit of work. Why not nick the icons and layout style from the new machine configurations? There's not a vast difference between the two, but MC configs reads so much better.

Re: NEW Tool Library

cj.abraham — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 21:47:08 GMT

For everyone that is trying the preview of the new tool library, keep in mind that it is a work in progress! It is missing functionality and the UI is undergoing many changes as we try different options. The goal for the new tool library is to eventually be a complete replacement of the current tool library, with features including (but not limited to, I saw these mentioned in the thread):

Table view of all of the parameters by sortable and reorderable columns
Tool Renumbering
View tools by setup
General Speed and responsiveness

We appreciate your constructive feedback as we build the new tool library. Please don't confuse us putting the library in preview with it being the final product!

Re: NEW Tool Library

veso58S5W — Wed, 18 Dec 2019 02:27:43 GMT

That would be really nice for Speed & Feed presets.
When we talk about that.

I am new in CNC, but learned a lot. I have 3 years of mechanical University and have Machine Shop 40 years. I know what you can and what you can't. And what you have to stay away. I can make complicated Al mold in 2-3 days now. Tolerances, about 0.003mm on 600mm length.
Recently I need to shoulder Al6061, some 6" down. Nothing big in to radial, like 1-2mm, but surface should be essential, around 0.01mm.
I bought 38mm diameter Kennametal staggered helical mill, 5 inserts in 4 levels, total 20. CAT40 4" long face mill holder. I calculated all the parameters, from Kennametal site, and came with something like 6000RPM and around 6000mm/min cut feed.

Seemed too much for me, but I looked their videos and also from Iscar, so I thought I can use it also for Adaptive cut. Not full height of 35mm, but only 16mm Z. Their videos show really agressive full Z cut in 4140. Goes like butter.

I reduced by their calculation by 25%. And, press the Green Button.
Holly **** of Glory - Flying Inserts Attack. Full blast, worse than Star Wars.

Re: NEW Tool Library

veso58S5W — Wed, 18 Dec 2019 02:41:45 GMT

Good thing, I am also fast on Red Button.

So, what I learned. Having suggestions from you guys would make FusionCAM really appealing. I would pay for it.

I had long talk with Kennametal expert tech support guy, he at the end confirmed, "Oh, well, you have CAT40, 4" Face Mill holder - not the best, but again, shouldn't do such mess. Obviously it was too aggressive.

I destroyed the cutter, real cost $900, and some 6-7 inserts, another $50-60.
Then I bought Sandvik, because of Capto Connection. Much stronger than key and spindle. And, then I found Sandvik application for calculating speeds and feeds, based on the specific cutter. Holy, schmolly, completely different. Check Sandvik site, find some cutters and check app. Really useful.
What I want to say for AutoDesk and FusionCAM, would be really step above others to have something like Check List, of what you are going to do. Everything involved in the process, before we press Green Button.
Like if you ask user a questions, and based on answers Fusion can even tell you - Don't do it, you don't have equipment for that. many of cutters do not have bigger ramp than 2 degrees. If Fusion knows that (entered by user in Tool Library) then Fusion will set automatically Ramping on 2deg Max.

Re: NEW Tool Library

vworpi — Wed, 18 Dec 2019 14:53:14 GMT

I think we all appreciate that this is a preview, but Fusion has a had a slight history of promoting new functionality to full release with substantial bugs, eg new UI with horrendous contrast in the visibility icons, new turning cycles = instant machine crash when posting, last months breaking of linked posts in mc configurations.

It would be nice if we could head this off this time before it happens.

Re: NEW Tool Library

vworpi — Wed, 18 Dec 2019 14:55:01 GMT

Out of curiosity, what new functionality are you looking to introduce to the tool library?

Re: NEW Tool Library

Captain-DJ — Thu, 19 Dec 2019 01:34:39 GMT

@christopher.cooperVHK2N

Ok, that is a good way to select feed and speed for roughing and finishing i think.

Now we are waiting for the next version 🙂

best regards