topic Re: Can't align grid to PCB outline in Fusion 360 Electronics in Fusion Electronics Forum

Can't align grid to PCB outline in Fusion 360 Electronics

scottmoyse — Wed, 20 Jan 2021 11:25:30 GMT

Hey team,

Please can you take a look at my video which explains my confusion and inability to find a solution to this issue.

The 3D PCB to 2D PCB conversion doesn't seem to respect the source sketch origin location and orientation.

Re: Can't align grid to PCB outline in Fusion 360 Electronics

scottmoyse — Wed, 20 Jan 2021 11:28:51 GMT

Also the Move command is missing from the Sketch Environment in the 3D PCB document type!??! If you edit the Outline sketch in the timeline, all the normal sketch commands are there, but Move is nowhere to be seen. So you can't move the outline relative to the origin there either.

Re: Can't align grid to PCB outline in Fusion 360 Electronics

jorge_garcia — Wed, 20 Jan 2021 23:59:17 GMT

Hi @scottmoyse ,

I hope this message finds you well. I can speak to the electronics environment. The origin of the grid in the 2D PCB is immovable, it's always been that way in EAGLE.

Furthermore, the origins are completely independent and Fusion is basically mapping from one to the other as best as it can. In this scenario you are dealing with 3 origins (the origin in the original sketch, the origin in the 3D PCB and the origin in the 2D PCB) and one of them has one degree less of freedom than the others. All of this to say, that at least for now the mapping between them can be hard to feel intuitively.

Here's what I would do, I would focus on locating all the switches on the 2D PCB(my bias shows 🙂 ). Add all of your switches to the schematic, they will then appear on the board. Then go to automation and select "Run ULP", in the dialog that pops up select component-array.ulp. This will allow you to place all of the switches in a rectangular array which you can then modify as you see fit manually.

As long as the switches have a 3D model in the library, those models will populate correctly and you'll be set.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,

Re: Can't align grid to PCB outline in Fusion 360 Electronics

benjamin.jordan — Thu, 21 Jan 2021 01:31:31 GMT

Hi @scottmoyse while @jorge_garcia 's answer is certainly the correct and thorough one, I thought I'd add something simple in case all you wanted to do was relocate everything in unison in the PCB editor so that the first row of switches is on grid.

You can select EVERYTHING using CTRL+A in the PCB editor. This will also select the lines that define the PCB outline.

You can click the MOVE icon on the PCB editor DESIGN ribbon.

Then Right-click on the center of the first switch's hole (as close as you can) and click "Move: Group" from the popup menu.

Then when you move the mouse to the grid point desired and left click to complete the move.

This may not be what you were getting at in the video but I think it is... let us know if it helps.

Re: Can't align grid to PCB outline in Fusion 360 Electronics

scottmoyse — Thu, 21 Jan 2021 02:06:29 GMT

@benjamin.jordan Thanks for sharing that.

I ended up discovering the right-click Move Group approach last night. I used Inspector to find the co-ordinates of the circle I wanted to sit on the origin. I then setup the grid to match those X/Y values (I had to do this twice because the values were different). I then used the wildly undiscoverable method you mention (It took me two hours late last night of trying various combinations of things with the move command to arrive at the same workflow you describe). This then allowed me to snap the PCB outline exactly onto the Grid. I repeated the same approach for the components which were placed off grid.

I don't really understand why the PCB outline can't be treated like it's own selectable entity and be included natively like components are in the Move command.

Re: Can't align grid to PCB outline in Fusion 360 Electronics

scottmoyse — Thu, 21 Jan 2021 02:19:09 GMT

@jorge_garcia wrote:
As long as the switches have a 3D model in the library, those models will populate correctly and you'll be set.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Thank you for the detailed information. It makes sense and I'm curious about the script you reference.

In regards to the above. My switch model has a Join in it, so the stem moves within it's physical limits. That way any keycap which gets designed can be verified against the switch body and switch plate throughout its motion. So my question is... if I add that model to the switch definition in the library, does it support native Fusion models or are they effectively dumb/static solids?

Re: Can't align grid to PCB outline in Fusion 360 Electronics

jorge_garcia — Thu, 21 Jan 2021 19:20:27 GMT

Hi @scottmoyse ,

The library can take a Fusion 360 design model, however I don't know if the join will be preserved. I've never tried it and I don't know if the library system will preserve it. I know for example, that components in the library are treated as single bodies so they can't have multiple materials assigned to them.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,

Re: Can't align grid to PCB outline in Fusion 360 Electronics

scottmoyse — Thu, 21 Jan 2021 20:39:09 GMT

@benjamin.jordan wrote:

Hi @scottmoyse while @jorge_garcia 's answer is certainly the correct and thorough one, I thought I'd add something simple in case all you wanted to do was relocate everything in unison in the PCB editor so that the first row of switches is on grid.

You can select EVERYTHING using CTRL+A in the PCB editor. This will also select the lines that define the PCB outline.

You can click the MOVE icon on the PCB editor DESIGN ribbon.

Then Right-click on the center of the first switch's hole (as close as you can) and click "Move: Group" from the popup menu.

Then when you move the mouse to the grid point desired and left click to complete the move.

@benjamin.jordan so... it appears as though as soon as a change occurs to the model, which impacts the 3D PCB size and position, it just resets the location of the PCB outline in the 2D PCB document. Which in turn stuffs up the alignment of the switches relative to the PCB.

Combined with my desire to have functional models of my switches, this alignment issue seems to be a significant limitation. Since it appears the only way I can get the position of the 2D components to remain associative with the 3D position in the 3D document is to include the model in the component library, then move the component into place in the Design Workspace. I could do this of course, but then I can't have switch motion in my digital prototype.

It's a shame that we can't define a PCB origin in the 3D PCB document. Then we could replicate the AutoCAD to Eagle workflow shown in this series of videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBNY-Ca9JhQ

At this point I'm not sure at all what the best course of action is. It seems this integration isn't really ready for the parametric CAD world just yet and is more of a bottom up workflow then a top down one.

Would you be open to discussing this on a call? We have a trade show in a few weeks here in New Zealand and it would be great to be able to show off this workflow.

Re: Can't align grid to PCB outline in Fusion 360 Electronics

scottmoyse — Thu, 21 Jan 2021 22:30:18 GMT

As a side note, I've also noted that Joining anything to the PCB is a sketchy endeavour since the model edge ID's appear to change quite readily when PCB changes are made, resulting in failed joints.

Re: Can't align grid to PCB outline in Fusion 360 Electronics

benjamin.jordan — Thu, 21 Jan 2021 23:24:19 GMT

On the joint topic I have a vision for where it's less so the PCB and more components (like the switches) that need joints because where you put them affects mechanical parts of the design: for example, wouldn't it be cool to add holes and have them joined to the pot shaft? So I can move the pot, and the hole moves with it. This may be possible today but I have not tried it (now look... you've given me more weekend homework!)

Re: Can't align grid to PCB outline in Fusion 360 Electronics

scottmoyse — Fri, 22 Jan 2021 02:27:28 GMT

@benjamin.jordan wrote:

On the joint topic I have a vision for where it's less so the PCB and more components (like the switches) that need joints because where you put them affects mechanical parts of the design: for example, wouldn't it be cool to add holes and have them joined to the pot shaft? So I can move the pot, and the hole moves with it. This may be possible today but I have not tried it (now look... you've given me more weekend homework!)

This is essentially what I'm trying to get to work.