topic Re: how to "configure hole Patterns? in Fusion Design, Validate & Document Forum

how to "configure hole Patterns?

moritzLCGFK — Thu, 19 Dec 2024 15:15:35 GMT

I’m working on a kitchen cabinet design and need to create a series of holes with 32mm spacing for shelf supports. The number of holes depends on the cabinet’s height. I’ve set an origin hole in the middle of the cabinet and used the "Pattern" feature to copy it up and down based on height.

However, the cabinet doors, depending on their height, require 2, 3, or 4 hinges, which may overlap with the patterned holes. I want to suppress or refill specific holes in the pattern based on the number of hinges without creating separate configurations. With up to 3 possible door fronts per cabinet and around 20 cabinet types, this would lead to an explosion of configurations.

I’ve tried using an extrusion to remove unwanted holes, but this method is cumbersome and introduces issues when hinge positions not in use are placed outside the cabinet, leading to unintended new bodies during extrusion.

Does anyone know an elegant solution to this problem?

Thanks in advance for any advice

Re: how to "configure hole Patterns?

TimelesslyTiredYouth — Thu, 19 Dec 2024 15:24:17 GMT

Hi @moritzLCGFK

An elegant solution ...

in my opinion a good way is to use parameter-driven hole patterns with conditional suppression. Create a parameter (e.g., NumHinges) to control the number of hinges, then set up a hole pattern based on the cabinet height. Use this parameter to suppress specific holes in the pattern where the hinges are located. By referencing the hinge positions in a sketch, you can automatically suppress or refill holes without creating multiple configurations, keeping the design flexible and manageable. This approach avoids extrusion issues and unnecessary bodies while maintaining control over hole placement.

Kind regards

Ricky

Re: how to "configure hole Patterns?

moritzLCGFK — Thu, 19 Dec 2024 15:50:30 GMT

Hi Ricky,

are you talking about the geometric pattern feature wich is only available with the design extension?

I already tried the regular pattern, the numbers of holes are calculated via a formula (just to avoid an additional parameter), I just can´t find out how suppress specific holes, conditioned...

kind regards
Moritz

Re: how to "configure hole Patterns?

TimelesslyTiredYouth — Thu, 19 Dec 2024 16:09:23 GMT

Hi @moritzLCGFK

You're correct that the geometric pattern suppression is part of the Design Extension, which might not be available in your case. For the regular pattern tool in Fusion 360, conditional suppression isn't natively supported. I didn't realise that my account had that as an extension sorry. However, here's a workaround:

Instead of suppressing specific holes, you can create a sketch-driven hole pattern. Map hinge positions onto the sketch using construction points tied to formulas or parameters. Then, use these points to create holes selectively, avoiding overlap with hinge locations. Adjusting hinge count will dynamically update the sketch and resulting holes without needing suppression. This approach keeps everything parameterised and avoids needing extra tools or extensions.

Kind regards,
Ricky

Re: how to "configure hole Patterns?

moritzLCGFK — Thu, 19 Dec 2024 16:34:43 GMT

I´m not sure if I could follow you, do you mean to actually create holes with the feature "drilling"(? I use the german version) and use the sketch to place the holes, or do you mean the 3rd pattern option (pattern on path?)

Neither nor I am able to recreate what you are describing....
Is there any chance that you try to build a easymodel to show what you do mean?

kind regard
Moritz

Re: how to "configure hole Patterns?

TimelesslyTiredYouth — Thu, 19 Dec 2024 17:07:52 GMT

Right I'm British so I'll direct you to the only Germans ik so here: as my language is very odd...

@TrippyLighting and Gunther Andresen, I can't seem to @GAndresen

Re: how to "configure hole Patterns?

TimelesslyTiredYouth — Thu, 19 Dec 2024 17:45:55 GMT

Hi Moritz,

Yes, I’m referring to using the "drilling" (hole feature) and leveraging a sketch to precisely place the holes instead of a full pattern. In this approach, the sketch controls both the shelf support hole positions and hinge hole exclusions. You’d:

Create a sketch on the cabinet face with construction points for the shelf holes.
Parameterize the positions of these points to adjust dynamically based on height.
Add hinge points to the same sketch and use parameters or formulas to define their positions.
Use the Hole feature to selectively create holes at the shelf points, avoiding hinge positions.

This avoids the need for suppression or advanced pattern features, using a flexible sketch instead. Unfortunately, I can’t create and share a Fusion 360 file directly as I'm having problems with generative design! but I can provide a step-by-step guide or screenshots if needed. Let me know if you’d like a breakdown of the exact steps!

Kind regards,
Ricky

Re: how to "configure hole Patterns?

jhackney1972 — Thu, 19 Dec 2024 18:56:50 GMT

It is sort of down and dirty but it is quick. The video will show what I propose.

(view in My Videos)

Re: how to "configure hole Patterns?

TrippyLighting — Thu, 19 Dec 2024 21:39:45 GMT

Without a design at hand, this is difficult to answer. There is often no one-size-fits-all solution.

Re: how to "configure hole Patterns?

laughingcreek — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 17:20:14 GMT

I think extrude filling after the fact is going to be the only way, short of using the API. not having partially filled holes will be a challenge, but I think you could get there eventually with the attached approach. I would probably not worry about partially filled holes because you can get the hole drilling routine to not recognize partial holes for drilling.

(view in My Videos)

Betreff: how to "configure hole Patterns?

g-andresen — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 20:41:19 GMT

Hi,

Here is a solution for the hole pattern and positioning of the hinges.
I will explain the solution in more detail later.

(view in My Videos)

günther

Re: how to "configure hole Patterns?

moritzLCGFK — Mon, 23 Dec 2024 11:34:33 GMT

Thank you all for your suggestions, unfortunately none of them seems to REALLY solve the problem elegant..

@TimelesslyTiredYouth , I think I actually might try your approach first, altough I still don´t see the benefit of using the drilling feature... But I might split the hole patterns so some of them are always there, just differently placed, based on the number of hinges, and only above and under the two middle hinges, I will start the parametericed pattern.
There might be a problem if the cabinet gets so small, that I wouldn´t need as many holes as I need between the two hinges for a high cabinet

@jhackney1972 , I didn´t know that I could delete drilling surfaces that easy, but I don´t think this will solve my problem, as I still can´t condition the surpession of deleting the surfaces, without adding it to my configuration table
It COULD work to reduce the diameter with the "push/pull" (?) function, wich i CAN condition, based on the cabinet height (just don´t think that I can set it to zero, so I have to find a workaround for this one again?!) (THANK YOU FUSION FOR STILL NOT IMPLEMENTING A "0" AS AN ALLOWED NUMBER) --> https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-support/zero-is-a-number/m-p/13206193#M208873
Maybe @TrippyLighting has an idea how to solve my Problem without a ton of workarounds, which could (maybe not truly elegant but still) be solved by using a ZERO as a number?

@laughingcreek , I already thought about solving my problem like you suggested, but I think it´s a really dirty way, and I wanted to see if there really is no elegant solution to this problem.

@g-andresen I think you are using the same holes fore your hinges than for the regular holes?!
Unfortunately, I´m using different base plates, which need two holes behind each other, instead of above each oher. Secondly, I would like to delete the patterned holes where the hinges will sit, so there is no possibility to set the pins in there, trying to make it more user-friendly....

Conclusion:
Most of your suggestions could work to some extent, but none offer a truly satisfying solution. I hope we see improvements like conditional suppression or more flexibility in configuring features without needing the configuration table. While configurations could solve my problem, they would result in 20+ new entries, whereas conditioning could achieve the same with just a few formulas and clicks.

Re: how to "configure hole Patterns?

g-andresen — Mon, 23 Dec 2024 11:35:20 GMT

Hi,

1. in the screencast, I show a solution in which the pattern of the shelf holes and the pattern of the cross plates are “on top of each other”.
They have an identical overall height, but differ in the number of instances.
2 To make it easier to insert the cross plates, their position has been marked.
3. the markings and the unused holes are covered by the cross plates.
4. but I would move the row of holes a little “backwards”.
This also has the benefit of giving the shelves a more stable support.

(view in My Videos)

günther

Re: how to "configure hole Patterns?

moritzLCGFK — Mon, 23 Dec 2024 12:50:06 GMT

Hi, this is obvious the most direct and easy approach, in my case, some points speaka against this one:

I don´t want to make the shelf holes all the way up, they should end ~200mm above/under the upper/lower base.

Another problm is, that the way we drill the doors is, that the middle two hinges (in the case of 4) are always 300mm apart, while the top and bottom ones sit 48,5mm away from the edge (of the door)
This is due to our main production cyclus, where a 50mm spacing between the shelf holes is used. It would be a pain to make 2 differenet door standarts but also we want to use a 32mm spacing on this one!

This all lead to the problem, that two holes from the hinges/ shelf intersect with each other which is defenitely unwanted.

Also, it is a pain, to count the number of holes from the bottom the middle of the cabinet, and just because you know at the front side, where to put the pins for the shelf in, doesn´t mean you see the right hole at the backsite.
Also The user might not see that the shelf will sit a little over the first hole und the hinge, so it will collide with it when thew door is closed.

So there are some reasons why I want to delete/suppress the holes from the pattern, and not just overlap them.
Of course this is not a dealbreaker and there are workaround, in the end, I think I wanted to point out that Fusion is missing the feature to suppress / edit Features conditioned, just like you can condition parameters.
(I´v been at this points many times, but it´s the first time i´m asking this in the forums)

I was thinking about creating left and right cabinets where the holes for the hinges would only be on the appropriate side, wich HAD the same problem- unconditioned suppression was needed, otherwise I would have had to create an enormous amount of new configurations, just to add a L/R for every cabinet with a door
(Thankfully the new "implizit suppressed" feature is more or less solving this one)