topic Re: Design always ends in "circular dependency found" error. in Fusion Design, Validate & Document Forum

Design always ends in "circular dependency found" error.

call.me.brian — Wed, 29 Dec 2021 15:32:07 GMT

Hello community,

currently I'm designing a hotend holder for my 3D printer but since few days the design always results in the error message: "circular dependency found" and does not allow further operations and prevents the bodies from being crated:

For my eyes there is no actual dependency I can resolve.
As suggested in public threads I rolled back to a previous version where I can continue working but it is still sometime resulting in the same error message.
I'm using Fusion 360 Personal edition v2.0.11894 under Windows 10.
I think the same error happens on my other PC under Windows 11 within the same model as well.

It looks like that fillets seem to trigger those errors but for my understanding those fillets are not related to the other mentioned features and mostly are located at different bodies within the model/assembly.

In the past I already had much more complex designs without such an issue.

Does anybody have a clue on how to resolve that as I want to finish my design?

Thanks in advance!

Re: Design always ends in "circular dependency found" error.

call.me.brian — Thu, 30 Dec 2021 09:12:36 GMT

I just noticed that I posted in the wrong category. Sorry for that!

Can a mod please move my thread into the right category?

Re: Design always ends in "circular dependency found" error.

laughingcreek — Fri, 31 Dec 2021 00:44:39 GMT

you'll need to attach your .f3d model for anybody to help you.

Betreff: Design always ends in "circular dependency found" error.

call.me.brian — Fri, 31 Dec 2021 07:54:26 GMT

Attached is the design that shows the error once you try computing all or create a fillet at any edge.
It drives me crazy.

Betreff: Design always ends in "circular dependency found" error.

laughingcreek — Sat, 01 Jan 2022 20:39:35 GMT

You've used a number of modeling practices that tend to give rise to errors. I have a feeling that trying to figure out the exact thing you did to cause this problem will be impossible to to figure out at this point.

a few of the things I would suggest doing differently are-

-correct yellow and red errors in time line as they occur. they are ticking time bombs if you leave them. 2 of your sub components have errors in their time line (you deleted the first sketch in the blower fan component?). you will be chasing your tail trying to figure things out as long there are errors in the time lines.

-in your main assembly file, you have bodies and sub-components living at the same level in the browser tree. while this is allowed, it can lead to some mind bending behavior when you start adding joint and is general not considered good practice. the "fan ducts" and "hot end holders" should be discrete components, and not bodies at the top level.

-you used the free move tool to position bodies several times. free move (the first tool selection in the move tool) should almost never be used in a parametric model b/c it's not parametric. The other types of moves are, but still shouldn't be used the way you've done it here. you generally want to avoid the move tool all together (same with allign).

-you also moved or aligned your sub components and then used position capture to keep them in place. I've seen this give rise to numerus errors, including the circular reference error your seeing. there are only 2 viable means of positioning a component: 1-use a regular "joint", 2-build it in place (which doesn't include using move or align commands) and use an "as-built joint". all other means of positioning components can lead to errors similar to what your seeing.

my suggestion is to fix your existing sub-components first, so there are no errors, and then start over on the design using good modeling practices.

Betreff: Design always ends in "circular dependency found" error.

call.me.brian — Mon, 03 Jan 2022 14:16:28 GMT

Thank you very much @laughingcreek for that extensive analysis and your time!

I did not even notice the yellow errors of those blower fans as I just imported those from my collection. If I open it separately it is full of yellow stuff...

Prior to this design I was working at a different one where I created components from scratch for every part. But this was quite bothering due to activating those different components and it looks like for this design now I "forgot" to do so.

I already read that inofficial rule: first thing to do in a new design is creating a component.
Will the operation "Create Components from Bodies" match up to your tip with discrete components or should this been done before the first sketch is created?

Somehow I was able to finish that design and get it printed already so I'll try sticking to your tips the next time!
Especially regarding to the move mistakes I made this could explain why my whole 3D printer model sometimes "explodes" after I was refreshing updated components.
It all makes sense now!

Thank you again!

Betreff: Design always ends in "circular dependency found" error.

laughingcreek — Mon, 03 Jan 2022 16:02:03 GMT

@call.me.brian wrote:

....I already read that inofficial rule: first thing to do in a new design is creating a component....

great rule. don't for get how it starts though. "when in doubt..."

..Will the operation "Create Components from Bodies" match up to your tip with discrete components or should this been done before the first sketch is created?...

what your describing here is part of the idea of a "top down" modeling approach. you start with skeleton sketches that lay out the whole of a project, and extrude/create multiple discrete components of of them. fusion is really good at this approach.

my personal rule is sketches used for multiple components live one (or more) level up from the component. if a sketch is ONLY used by a particular component, then it lives with-in the component. your mileage may very.

Betreff: Design always ends in "circular dependency found" error.

call.me.brian — Tue, 04 Jan 2022 09:07:30 GMT

Again thank you for those tips.
Let's see where the next design will end up.