topic building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole) in Fusion Design, Validate & Document Forum

building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

mark33.in.oz — Fri, 05 May 2023 02:55:00 GMT

Sorry folks, this is a real big trip up for me.

This is a bit of a long post.

Only to explain the story - though somewhat academic at this point in time.

But I feel I need to explain how I got here and why to (maybe) help in the bigger picture.

INTRODUCTION:

I have been using Fusion 360 for a few years now but it is only on a limited use and it was done more for 3D printing than where I am now.

Not to detract from what the program can do and I accept its limits.

But recent events have presented me with a whole new rabbit hole down which I am traveling now.

So for the record:

I only "designed" this to get an idea of what I wanted to do and look at how it was going to be built.

Then the situation presented itself that completely changes the course.

I bought a new vacuum cleaner (portable) and want to build it a "house".

I sat down and "built" models on the parts and then the "house" into which it would be put.
This way I could look at item interaction (or how it would look when built) and make sure things were ok.

See the model.

Knowing my luck all the pieces will be everywhere and not where I want. Haven't worked that problem out either.

Now a "walk through" of the idea:

It is a top/sides and bottom of a box with TWO backs. 1 is the REAL back and the other (in this case) is called the "insert".

Why?

Well, this was done for my benefit for the positioning of the "charger".

At the start I wasn't sure how that was going to attach to the rear wall. Bolts, nails or.....????

Ends up being two dowels. There will be washers to fill in a bit of space to fill in the small gap to make it all "level" then a piece of wood (thin) put between the two dowels.

And there is a hole for the power cable to pass through.

That hole also needs to be in the back plane but the two holes for the dowel don't.

So the power cable hole needs to be lined up on both pieces.

This is easy but then lining up the "charger" with the holes is difficult so I hide the "housing" and line up the holes with the "charger" and the holes in the "insert".

Then un-hide the "housing" and move it into position and work from there.

(Sorry, I hope you are still reading this as I still haven't got to the problem yet.)

So with all pieces in place I could see what I needed to build the "house".

This was done by making a drawing of the "house" and showing all / most of the dimensions.

That was kind of painful on my version as I couldn't do all I wanted.

Not sure that is because of the limits of the version or my knowledge. But anyway.

ALTERNATIVE IDEA:

I showed this to someone for a second opinion and......

Then someone said it could be laser cut easily.

All you need is to export the ... file in the required format.
(Which ok: This version doesn't allow)

But that isn't the problem.

I have access to a full version (limited use of for time) and went there with the idea of making/exporting this file.

I "hide" all the non-house parts and export to the file.

Alas ALL the pieces/parts are exported.

What kind of throws the proverbial spanner in the works for me.

QUESTION:

Main one:

What do I need to do?

Delete the non-required parts and then export?

Another while here:

So, the original idea is I make a "model" of all the things and make sure they can "play with each other nicely" in the house I want to make.

But any time I go in and edit a piece/part: all/most other parts get moved elsewhere/back to their start positions.

Ok, I kind of get that.

But isn't FUSION supposed to be ...... parametric?

And as I am making ... components (separate parts) rather than as I originally did - in one big homogeneous mess - shouldn't they remember where I put them?

I know this is a big ask and it will be difficult to help me.

I am not even sure I am going to be able to understand what will be said/told to me via the group as "~~SIMPLEX~~" "HALF DUPLEX" (two way communication with long delay between who's talking) communications are not easily processed by me.

I'll stop here as I think I have (probably) gone on long enough now and already lost people.

Going on more will only lose more.

Thanks in advance.

Re: building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

etfrench — Fri, 05 May 2023 05:13:53 GMT

Lots of Moves and no Joints makes for a very bad parametric file.

You may be able to rescue it by doing a "Save Copy As" for each component, then inserting each of those into a new file while using joints to position each one.

Re: building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

mark33.in.oz — Fri, 05 May 2023 09:14:31 GMT

(I hope I clicked on the correct button to send the reply to the right person)

Thanks for that information.

So reading what you said as I see it:

I need to make a lot of sub-flies and import them.

That is going to really kill my limited 10 projects at a time limit. 😞

Am I understanding what you said correctly?

Re: building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

etfrench — Fri, 05 May 2023 16:56:31 GMT

I don't have the personal edition, so I can't really answer that. Can you insert a read-only file into a new file?

Re: building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

mark33.in.oz — Fri, 05 May 2023 21:09:48 GMT

From memory, read only files are either hidden and I can't see them in the "projects" list or something else that doesn't allow that to work.

Re: building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

mark33.in.oz — Fri, 05 May 2023 21:13:44 GMT

Ok, thanks to both who replied.

I know I did ask for help on that particular part which is being answered in those replies but I fear the MAIN reason is being avoided.

How do I get the .DXF file (I think that was the extension type) from the project?

As I mentioned I did get hold of a full version of Fusion I could use.

But when I exported the file I got EVERYTHING.

99.9% sure that when I selected the option there was a "VISIBLE OBJECTS" option which I selected.

And given I only had the "housing" and "insert" visible..... Why did I get everything else?

Ok, that is a (sort of) stupid question. It doesn't really matter why.

The main question is:

How do I export the "housing" and "insert" to a .DXF file?

And not take all the other items/objects.

Re: building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

etfrench — Fri, 05 May 2023 21:19:28 GMT

Use 'Save As DXF' after right clicking on the sketch. If you don't have all of the necessary details in a single sketch, then create a new sketch and project the face to the sketch.

Re: building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

mark33.in.oz — Fri, 05 May 2023 22:42:48 GMT

But there are a few "sketches" that define the pieces that need to be built.

This is my latest effort.

Nothing against anyone helping/posting here.

But so we are all taking about the same thing.....

Loading the project and "opening" the component "insert 1". It has 9 bodies..

Sorry about the bad names towards the bottom of it's list.

4 sketches. And I shall admit I am not sure what they all are.

I am OVER MY HEAD with what I am doing.

I have just spent a couple of hours (just now) head down backside up working on this.

And I shall admit I did learn some stuff. Fresh look at the problem and all that.

But it is still WAY ABOVE my skill set.

So there is the "insert 1".

Then there is the "housing" which only needs the top, bottom and two walls done.

The "back" is not needed any more.

AND.....

The "insert 1" needs to be slightly made bigger to allow finger joints with the other 4 "walls".

then there are the 4 x "holders" (hooks - if you want) and the 4 x "bodies" that are wedges.

All those need to be exported to a file the laser cutter understands.

So..... Can I click on multiple sketches and export them all at once?

Oh, I can't do any of that here/now anyway.

I have to wait until Thursday until I can get access to the full version anyway.

Re: building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

etfrench — Fri, 05 May 2023 23:37:35 GMT

A laser can only cut on one plane, so each part needs to be separated out so that each individual piece can be cut out. You probably need to copy each part and paste them in a separate component. Arrange them so they are all on the same plane (A Planer Joint works well for this). Note: Joints only work on components, so you'll need to make each body a subcomponent of their current parent component. Once you have all of the individual parts arranged, make a sketch on that plane and Project/Body each part to the sketch.

Re: building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

mark33.in.oz — Sat, 06 May 2023 00:42:12 GMT

Ok, I am starting to understand.

For the sake of the exercise I will make another component and copy any needed sketches to it.

I've never heard of a "planner joint" or used it.

I'll look into what it is and how to use it.

Though:

If all I need are the sketches: why do I need to make components?

I'm about to load Fusion now and do what I can to this point.

Re: building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

davebYYPCU — Sat, 06 May 2023 01:02:34 GMT

Correct, if using dxf sketch as output, you don’t need Components and Joints.

Normal workflow is to construct the model, with finished parts / bodies.

Fusion as it is now, you then create a new sketch with Project on Reference Preference turned on. Click on the face of the body, and Save (this new sketch) as Dxf.

Might help.....

(Ok on the phone next hour or so.)

Re: building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

mark33.in.oz — Sat, 06 May 2023 01:17:11 GMT

Greatest apologies, but indulge me what I've just done.

Yeah, it is the bigger job.

But look at the "All the pieces" component.

is that what I need to export?

Re: building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

etfrench — Sat, 06 May 2023 01:52:17 GMT

Is their laser bed really that large?

You have some extra points and construction lines in All the parts sketch. If they are not necessary, they should be deleted.

How are the double lines on the largest piece going to be cut?

Otherwise, that should work.

Re: building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

mark33.in.oz — Sat, 06 May 2023 03:08:43 GMT

Well, that's the size of things.

It may need two "cuts" to get them all.

The double line I think you mean is a "mistake".

That shows the inside distance for the finger joints.

It is an artifact from it being the "insert" to becoming the back panel.

I didn't change the line to dashed.

Now I have the fun of making all the finger joints.

Re: building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

mark33.in.oz — Sat, 06 May 2023 05:11:45 GMT

Well, after a lot of messing around this is the final version.

(Best of my knowledge.)

Finger joints are in. ALL DONE MANUALLY!

It was told how I could do it "automagically" but by the time I got home I'd forgotten.

So a bit of fun with that.

I'll see what the person with the laser cutter says.

But I can't export the type of file.

NOT ALLOWED in the free version. Shall have to wait until Thursday to get that file.

(ARGH!)

It did attach and didn't bother telling me.

Ok, the "All the pieces" component:

IGNORE THE TWO PIECES ON THE EXTREME LEFT! THEY WERE/ARE OLD PARTS.

I goofed (and goofed and goofed) and finally got things ok.

I left them there for now as they aren't hurting anyone.

I'll delete them later.

But I would like to check that the finger joints are ok - external set of eyes.

There are NO FINGER JOINTS AT THE FRONT.

The "box" stands up and has no "Front".

It has: Top, Bottom, Left, Right and Back.

Then there are 8 other pieces. 4 x "hooks" and 4 x "blocks" to keep the "hooks" from moving left/right.

All wood is 7mm ply and shall be stained/varnished after all the bits are glued together.

Oh, and P.S.

There are two pieces of dowel to go in to connect to the "charger" and hold it in place.

There also may be washers on each piece of dowel then a single piece across the two with screws holding it there to stop the charger falling off.

Re: building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

etfrench — Sat, 06 May 2023 06:15:16 GMT

Your laser guy is not going to like that file😁 You have multiple overlying lines on the finger joints. You also didn't follow directions for creating the 'All the pieces' sketch. In a parametric model, you want to edit the original and have the changes automatically update the copy. I would recommend you transfer the changes you made in the 'All the pieces' sketch to the sketch(es) in the Insert component. Update the extrude features for each of the bodies in the Insert component once you have edited the sketch for that body.

Here's an example where I just added the cutout for a finger joint in the original sketch. When you edit the Extrude feature for that body, you can click on the finger joint profile to remove it from the Profiles.

Once you have all of the bodies updated, convert all of the bodies to components which are subcomponents of the Insert component. Copy the Insert component, then use planar joints to arrange all of the subcomponents. Once arranged, project each face (Make sure "Project Link" is checked) to a sketch to send as a dxf to the laser guy. This process will allow you to make changes to the model and have the changes automatically propagate to the dxf sketch.

Re: building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

mark33.in.oz — Sat, 06 May 2023 07:59:05 GMT

Thanks.

I guess I did that to "test the water" on doing it.

Making the actual finger joints is - to me - academic (in the model shown in Fusion). As the "All the pieces" will be the end of the project.

How it looks in Fusion doesn't matter.

Yes, I guess it wouldn't be much "more" effort (? guessing) to have modified the original sketch/s and apply the finger joints there.

But I was trapped in the mindset that the sketches need to be 2D - not 3. Seems I am wrong.

> I would recommend you transfer the changes you made in the 'All the pieces' sketch to the sketch(es) in the Insert component. Update the extrude features for each of the bodies in the Insert component once you have edited the sketch for that body.

Sorry all I am seeing is words with no meaning. No offense. This "language" is very foreign to me.

I am understanding I do the finger joints in their original sketches and they will propagate through to the "all the pieces" sketch.

But beyond that.... Sorry.

> Here's an example where I just added the cutout for a finger joint in the original sketch. When you edit the Extrude feature for that body, you can click on the finger joint profile to remove it from the Profiles.

Again: I see it, but don't understand it.

It is very frustrating for me too, and I am not trying to be difficult.

Maybe I am a "seeing" person to how I learn. Otherwise I somehow bash through as I did with what I posted.

And for the worse it would seem.

Anyway, another "spanner in the works" for me is this exporting the file type.

I can't remember the letters - that's how bad my memory is.

But at one stage I said I couldn't export that type.

But was told I could. I have a small suspicion I can on my version but I am stuck how.

Because in one effort I got EVERYTHING - which wasn't wanted.

This lead on to being told I only need to export/select the SKETCHES. NOT the bodies.

So I made this new sketch and put copies (with modifications) of them and can't export that file type.

I am going to dig down and look at some videos on how to export them and get back to "you".

But there seem to be a lot of tricks I am not seeing (understandably) as Fusion is a whole new world to me and doing this (exporting for a laser cutter) is a whole new GALAXY - which puts WORLD into a very different perspective.

Re: building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

TheCADWhisperer — Sat, 06 May 2023 10:56:07 GMT

@mark33.in.oz wrote:
This lead on to being told I only need to export/select the SKETCHES. NOT the bodies.
So I made this new sketch and put copies (with modifications) of them and can't export that file type.

I am going to dig down and look at some videos on how to export them and get back to "you".

@mark33.in.oz

Right click on the sketch in the browser...

Select Save as DXF.

BTW - are there any white dots in your sketch? Try clicking and dragging white dots - what do you observe?

Re: building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

mark33.in.oz — Sat, 06 May 2023 11:25:58 GMT

Clicking on the white dots I seem to remember bring on chaos!

I watched a video on how to make finger joints.

Looks easy. SHOULD BE. Isn't.

Got 70% of the way through and it all went sour on me.

Yeah, ok, I was doing it a bit differently. But the mechanics should be the same.

So I've spent the last hour not moving from the machine (sore shoulders - killing me) and I have got no where.

I even took it back and started again - well not in the "correct way" it now appears - and now I can't make the rectangles collinear. (I think that isn't the word I want. TWO L's in liniar?) Constraints. Which I am being told of but not SHOWN where they are and/or how to delete them.

Thanks.

But the delay between me posting and getting a reply is kind of not helping me.

No against you. I get that is how it is.

But I'm torn between "sitting on my 'bot waiting to be spoon fed" - which is not good - or TRYING to work it out.

This has the added complication that I can quickly go down a lot of rabbit holes while waiting for a reply.

And that further complicates things.

So due to poor ergonomics I think I am going to have to call it quits for today/night.

No good flogging a dead horse.

Re: building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

TheCADWhisperer — Sat, 06 May 2023 11:40:45 GMT

@mark33.in.oz wrote:
Clicking on the white dots I seem to remember bring on chaos!
No good flogging a dead horse.

White dots should keep you awake at night.

Do you have any interest in learning to do this all correctly, step-by-step (warning - will require starting over from scratch)?