topic Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section in Fusion Design, Validate & Document Forum

17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

jake_resnick — Fri, 28 Jul 2023 13:22:50 GMT

Hi there,

My name is Jake and I’m 17, I love aviation, engineering and CAD. I have been trying to design an airliner in CAD for a long time but I just can’t seem to get accurate geometry for the nose. Let me explain the situation.

I am using Fusion 360.

I want to design a commercial aircraft that I could eventually make into an RC model. I want it to have very accurate geometry and be very detailed.

I don't have a big problem with most parts of the aircraft, but I just can’t seem to get the nose geometry, specifically the cockpit windows right. As you can see from the two pictures below, I’m using an ERJ-135 and 757-200 for practice. I can get everything on the nose looking pretty good but I just can’t get the cockpit window area.

I keep trying and deleting it.

I guess my questions Are:

Are there any specific or more broad concepts that I should be doing or learning about?
Am I approaching this the right way with splines and surfacing?
Do you have any advice on how to create accurate geometry for commercial aircraft cockpit windows, and nose section?

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Jake

Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

davebYYPCU — Wed, 26 Jul 2023 23:38:48 GMT

You have Canvass folder, but hidden content, so comparing those to your model is not possible.

No timeline? Surfaces that can be thickened are fine.

Canvasses should supply the cut lines for the windscreen. Once the opening is created, one or more patches will give the window panels/ frames.

Attach that file, responders will provide guidance on workflows.

Might help....

Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

SaeedHamza — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 02:15:21 GMT

These tutorials might help you get what you need or at least give a hint, both show the whole modelling process, including creating the nose and the cockpit window :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBTAxZGYUug

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOI2Km4qJaw

Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

jake_resnick — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 02:19:56 GMT

Hi thanks for the response, I have attached the ERJ-135, any help or examples on workflow would be amazing.

Also sorry in advance, It isn't very organized as I have done tons of revisions.

Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

jake_resnick — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 02:25:30 GMT

Hi, I have watched both of those videos before. I was hoping for some advice on creating more accurate geometry. While those videos do provide good basics, I think someone who actually knew the aircraft could easily see lots of flaws in the nose and cockpit window geometry.

Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

davebYYPCU — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 03:12:39 GMT

No file.

File > Export - Select a location on your hard drive, to save it.

New reply, and under the message window, click on the word, Browse. Select the file from hard drive, wait until it is loaded, before sending the new reply.

Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

TheCADWhisperer — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 10:35:31 GMT

@jake_resnick

I recommend turning on Capture Design History and starting over.

Curious - what is your logic for working without history?

Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

jake_resnick — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 12:20:55 GMT

I did attach the file to the original post? Right under the two pictures at the bottom. Do you see it? I might be wrong, I'm new to the forum.

And actually, people are bringing up a great point about the design history, if you give me a couple of hours I will redo it with the design history on then I can also show I video of the process

Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

jake_resnick — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 12:23:35 GMT

Yeah, I know I should be using it. Because I had to make so many revisions to the model I got disorganized and it got cluttered so turning off the design history made it a bit less cluttered. I know I should have it on. Give me a couple of hours to redo it and I will post new revisions with the design history.

Thanks

Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

davebYYPCU — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 12:27:55 GMT

Yep, saw it but too late for tonight, Will check it out tomorrow, with any updates.

There will be plenty of internet close up photos of the windscreens, best to grab a few and use that detail, especially, you can get a lot of info from shinning highlights, and shadows from colour photos.

Might help....

Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

TrippyLighting — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 15:41:00 GMT

Despite the lack of a timeline, I can already see you are going "off tangent".

Use as few spline points as you can get away with.

Your first choice should be control point splines, you second choice is fit point splines.

Use as few loft profiles and as few loft rails as ou can get away with. Less is more when lofting!

I tend to point folks to the Autodesk Alias Theory builder so they get an appreciation of what they are working with.

Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

RA_Nouveau — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 20:01:12 GMT

The profile of the nose is a conic for airliners. There is a bunch of rocketry articles on what nose cone shape is the best. Both NASA/DOD and hobby level. For subsonic it's the conic shape, and supersonic is where you get the pointy nose and a few other options.

Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

davebYYPCU — Fri, 28 Jul 2023 02:00:34 GMT

This bit?

With small centre line dummy surface to close one side, then

Surface Patch the opening, and Mirror.

No timeline, Argh!! Means you can't Edit Feature or Sketches. (Bread and Butter functionality)

Canvasses are not visible my end, they are here but blank.

You had the frame work for the finished job. I did not stitch them, because I don't know how much detail you are going to add.

Holes for Glass, Silver frames?

Might help....

Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

jake_resnick — Fri, 28 Jul 2023 13:10:48 GMT

Ok, where does it look like I'm going off tangent?

Thanks! I'll check out that link

Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

jake_resnick — Fri, 28 Jul 2023 13:25:39 GMT

Yeah, that actually looks better than I could get it. I'll try to replicate what you did. And sorry about the canvasses, it got messed up like that after I did an update or something like that.

I'm going to redo the design and stay organized but it's taking me a while, it took me a ton of revision to even end up at the file I posted.

And the thing about using as few splines as possible makes sense, but I can't figure out how to make the surfaces I want with so few. Is there any chance you could take me through your thought process or best practices for starting out a design like this? Once I've got the 3 view canvasses in place?

I attached a new file to the original post, called "(Splines Only) ERJ-135" which is how I started building the nose when I started over, I don't know if the way I'm doing it is good. And it has canvasses.

Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

davebYYPCU — Fri, 28 Jul 2023 13:36:06 GMT

Timeline, working Canvasses, correct scale so that your modelling is 1:1

Build outlines first, add internals and mechanics later.

Half wing and Stab, before Mirror (- if necessary.)

Form / Sculpted main body as per the video works well, but only for his main body in sculpt. Start / Stop between windows and front door.

His Nose and Tail cone are rubbish, can’t unsee those.

When you get to the Tail Cone and Nose / Cockpit, you only need the centre line sketch. Attach file, and we can get you going, without redos. I didn’t even check the size. Twin electric or turbines?

Might help....

Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

davebYYPCU — Fri, 28 Jul 2023 13:52:17 GMT

Ok, saw the file after your update. I am in Australia so time zones will cause delays.

I saw some sketch and components in the original file, but the file without canvasses meant a new version with time line will be better anyway. You are working too hard, too many sketches.

Splines should be 2 point, adjust shape with handles.

Might help.....

Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

jake_resnick — Fri, 28 Jul 2023 16:15:24 GMT

Ok, so the advice is to use a control point spline instead of a fit point. And use fewer points.

How should I create the geometry with fewer splines? Is the way I'm lofting ok?

And for the windows, I don't know whether to design the shape and then cut the windows or design the windows and then design the rest of the shape around that. Some aircraft have flat windows, which would mean I would have to design the windows first right?

I would like to eventually build, twin EDFs. But at this point I'm just focusing on learning to design a model that I'm happy with.

Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

davebYYPCU — Fri, 28 Jul 2023 16:49:25 GMT

I am familiar with constraining Fit Point Splines, but it’s not so much fewer Splines, it’s way less profiles and spline points, that were in the reviewed file. Minimum but appropriate sketching, then modelling will do it.

Flat windows are easy and done first, the Embraer doesn’t have flat windows. If it were me I would add silver frames, and paint the glass, or use plastic sheet clear panels.

Arrr, you Design now for the future, or you end up having “Redo” as a middle name. When doing nacelles for example, the fans fit into the model, not the other way around. You will need to know the tunnel diameter.

Might help....

Re: 17 year old seeks advice on modeling commercial aircraft nose section

wersy — Fri, 28 Jul 2023 17:05:38 GMT

@davebYYPCU schrieb:
This bit?

With small centre line dummy surface to close one side, then
Surface Patch the opening, and Mirror.

I tried to patch but it don't work.

What I am doing wrong?