topic Re: Best approach for flower watering can? in Fusion Design, Validate & Document Forum

Best approach for flower watering can?

WHolzwarth — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 11:25:32 GMT

Here' my wife's flower watering can. I tried it at first with F360 model environment (F3D attached), but then I didn't find a way for proceeding furthermore.

Therefore I converted to STEP and finished it with Inventor 2015.

I' ve had problems with an additional width loft for the front part, and bigger fillet radii at the rear. Selections for shelling in F360 seem to be tricky, too.

Comments welcome

Walter

Re: Best approach for flower watering can?

jeff_strater — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 14:49:00 GMT

Thanks for the post, Walter.

I see some of the problems you are having - it's tough to get the two fillets plus the shell to all work together.

When you imported this into Inventor, what values/settings did you use on the fillets and the shell? And, what order did you apply the fillets?

I was able to get somewhat close, but it is clearly not the exact same model:

Thanks,

Jeff

Re: Best approach for flower watering can?

WHolzwarth — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 16:32:21 GMT

Thanks for inspecting, Jeff. See my settings in Inventor 2015:

- Shell 2 mm

- Fillets mainly 4 mm

- Medium fillet of can outlet 4 mm, left and right 12 mm

- Fillets between can and handle 40 mm

I had to use some tricks in applying these 40 mm fillets. Face delete with healing didn't work all around the existing contours.

Shelling was tricky, too. Shelling the whole body did not succeed. I had to split into different bodies, shell each body for itself, and combine the whole thing again in the end. In the schreenshot I've marked the spot, that was causing the shell errors. Feature Browser in Inventor could have been much shorter, if I'd known that spot right after importing the STEP, but it's been some trial in finding it.

Walter

Re: Best approach for flower watering can?

jeff_strater — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 01:24:04 GMT

Thanks, Walter. Well, it's at least somewhat comforting that this was not easy in Inventor, either. Yes, this is a bit of a complex model.

What were the steps in Inventor that you feel could not be duplicated in Fusion? Is it just the fillets? The splitting into multiple bodies for shelling should be similar.

If you want to share your Inventor model, I can take a look at that, as well, just to see whether some or all of those techniques could be done in Fusion.

Jeff

Re: Best approach for flower watering can?

WHolzwarth — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 07:45:09 GMT

Hi Jeff,

I've attached a 2nd attempt with F360. This time I've done the 40mm fillet at the handle at an early stage, before adding the smaller 4mm ones. But I'm stuck with the front outlet; a big problem seems to be no 3D lines in F360.

Even though I could get a patch by setting up an auxiliary sketch plane and line on it, but I couldn't see a method for mirroring this patch and adding it to the main body. After that an additional clean-up for the third front face would be needed, or perhaps sculpting would do the job.

I've tried shelling the back. Preview showed, but no result.

Inventor file is rather big, even with EOP pulled up. I'll try to clean it up, after knowing the problem zone. Where are the MB limits for attachments?

But at first, it's time for several hours of lawn mowing ..

Walter

Re: Best approach for flower watering can?

WHolzwarth — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 20:28:52 GMT

Ok, I'm back with a new Inventor 2015 file, saved with EOP all up. For seeing the model, EOP needs to be moved down. Perhaps some time for re-build is needed, I didn't test it.

In the end, I could do my intended job with Inventor, but I had some new troubles. If other people can get the end result easier, don't hesitate with showing your way. I'm still learning ..

What can be seen?

- With F360, there seems to be no way for getting the end result

- With Inventor 2015, it seems rather tricky, too.

Conclusion for me: Both F360 and Inventor need better modeling tools.

Another conclusion: I for myself don't need these Cloud features at all. If other people appreciate them, it's ok. But please, leave me the way out for working with my files and storing them on my own PC, without the time-consuming transfers to A360.

Later: I'm just trying EOP down, and Inventor seems hanging with too many features. I'll try now step by step. IMO, one more need for improvements.

More later: Meanwhile only 3 features are left in this rebuild. If there'll ever be a chance for a speed-up in the cloud, I'll think about it again.

Walter

Re: Best approach for flower watering can?

Anonymous — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 16:59:51 GMT

Thanks Walter for including the f3d files, I learned a lot from just going through scrubbing through each step of the timeline of your model.

Jesse

Re: Best approach for flower watering can?

WHolzwarth — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 18:08:54 GMT

Thanks back, Jesse

I'm no big Renderman, but see attached a picture, that's been done with Showcase 2015.

I've found a flower pot in Grabcad, and a HDR scene in Navisworks. Both could be combined with the watering can.

IMO, this is far beyond the rendering capabilities of F360.

If Autodesk really has made a decision for not further developing Showcase, then there seems some work to be done in other software.

Walter

Re: Best approach for flower watering can?

cekuhnen — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 23:34:25 GMT

I might suggest a different rounding strategy as well so you can prevent the undesirable side effect of the approach you used.

Check this file: http://a360.co/1AicNxz

Take a look at the image and pay attention at the side profile/edges of the vertical faces.

Re: Best approach for flower watering can?

WHolzwarth — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 06:22:11 GMT

Hmm. Surely I'm doing something wrong.

I'm trying to download a Fusion 360 Archive, I'm entering my E-Mail address, I'm getting a download link.

Clicking at this link results in a Zip.

Contents of the Zip is a file named Manifest.dat and a top folder named FusionAssetName[Active].

What has to be done now?

Re: Best approach for flower watering can?

cekuhnen — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 13:43:18 GMT

works here just tested it it only downloads the fusion file.

Here I added the file as a zip in the forum

Re: Best approach for flower watering can?

WHolzwarth — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:19:37 GMT

I could open the Zip attachment here.

Your approach is a different way of doing, but the problem zone with shelling seems to be the region, where the outlet is joining tangential to the main cone. Filleting outside can be done, but I had troubles with the shell. Strange to see, that shelling of my second attempt had issues on another zone.

Thanks for looking

Walter

Re: Best approach for flower watering can?

cekuhnen — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:30:11 GMT

I actually had the spout and handle added and shelling was fine. I then deleted those two so this file only has the side data

Re: Best approach for flower watering can?

cekuhnen — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 17:07:01 GMT

So here I rebuild the design for you from scratch.

http://a360.co/1zgUWvW

The only shelling/filleting problem I encountered was this edge:

So I rounded this edge after doing the shelling - not perfect but in this area doable.

So besides that one fillet related shelling problem the design tools in Fusion are sufficient to build somthing like this easily.

Re: Best approach for flower watering can?

WHolzwarth — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 17:49:32 GMT

It's looking good, but again I can't download the file. It's not only from your account.

Could you attach the F3D file here?

Thanks

Walter

Re: Best approach for flower watering can?

cekuhnen — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 18:33:34 GMT

here is a link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byzv_NlyKp_2U2VJcmhwbXYydWc/view?usp=sharing

Viel Spass

Re: Best approach for flower watering can?

WHolzwarth — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:03:59 GMT

Yes, I've found it already, after looking at your other topics around this task.

Meanwhile I've looked at your workflow. I think, a big difference is your sweep path for the outlet. It's not tangent to the cone.

IMO, if there's tangency, then it's some more difficult. What do you think, and can you show a solution for this situation, too?

Danke erstmal, Claas

Walter

Re: Best approach for flower watering can?

cekuhnen — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:06:06 GMT

I did not know this should be tangent - I just roughly rebuild the forms.

This would only require a spline for the left to be adjusted. Not a big deal.
Project the red line onto the spline sketch so you can match it easily.

Gern geschehen. Fusion ist schon nicht schlecht.

Re: Best approach for flower watering can?

WHolzwarth — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:13:27 GMT

Hmm. It's your file. Perhaps you're more accustomed with it.

Re: Best approach for flower watering can?

cekuhnen — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:34:08 GMT

here is the path tangent - however shelling bugs out here with 2 mm

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byzv_NlyKp_2ZFJKWGVlYmJpaG8/view?usp=sharing