topic Re: Joints and As Built Joints in Fusion Design, Validate & Document Forum

Joints and As Built Joints

kevinwatts — Tue, 05 May 2015 16:50:24 GMT

What is the rule of thumb to know when apply an As Built Joint instead of a Joint? And considerations after doing so?

In my case, I have:

a) created Bodies separatly under the same root in the Browser that need to be alligned

b) some bodies are aligned in the correct possition with another body

c) and I have imported some parts.

Re: Joints and As Built Joints

kevinwatts — Tue, 05 May 2015 17:44:31 GMT

I have also tried to create a joint and have this pop up message:

Some components have moved. Continue or Revert and Continue.

Please explain:

1. what this message is trying to tell me?

2. which option should I select?

Need to know before I can continue.

Thank you.

Re: Joints and As Built Joints

schneik-adsk — Tue, 05 May 2015 18:53:23 GMT

If either by way of import or by way of designing in context parts are in the right position, you can use in place joints.

An easy way to check is if you fire the "Compute all" command and parts snap into the right place, then these parts position is parametrically defined in the right place i.e. the compute positions them explicitly so you don't need to manually position them. If the joint is going to have open degrees of freedom or movement, you will need to select the joint type and then define where the movement is allowed. In place joints can accelerate assembling components because you need to select fewer items then a normal joint.

If parts are not in the right position you use a joint. Joints asks for reference geometry of two parts and then moves the second selection to align to the first. You can then refine the position.

You can not always use an in place joint so, when in doubt, use a normal joint.

Re: Joints and As Built Joints

kevinwatts — Tue, 05 May 2015 18:55:45 GMT

I was finally able to get to the point where the Joint should have worked. I made the plate the active component and imported a screw. Unlike the turorial mentioned above, when you select Join it did not like the idea that I had corrected the angle after it was inserted.

Next Problem - Error Rigid 1 - Computer Failed - Some positions cannot be resolved due to joint conflicts.

Please help.

Re: Joints and As Built Joints

schneik-adsk — Tue, 05 May 2015 19:01:46 GMT

Parts in Fusion are positioned in time. This allows for positioning parts differently over time or for assembling parts in the middle of their history, not just at the end as in most other CAD tools.

So...

1. This message is telling you that the current position of parts is not where they would be naturally when the history is computed. Selecting Revert will put the part back into its natural computed position. this is the same result if you fired the "Compute all" command from the modify panel in the toolbar.

2. Depends. Do you want the assembly to remember the current positions? Then Yes. Do you want the parts to be in their natural position? Then no. I 99% of the time revert. I only want to crate snapshots that capture moved parts when having those moved part are important to the design intent. Fusion can create part features based on parts moving so it allows for some great mechanism workflow. If you are not intending to model in multiple positions then this warning is an easy way to put parts moved accidentally or intentionality, but only for convenience, back to their intended position.

Re: Joints and As Built Joints

kevinwatts — Tue, 05 May 2015 19:22:25 GMT

I am still not clear about the Snap Shot.... But if I DO NOT move/rotate the imported screw as a sub-component, I can select and it aligns with the hole in a plate body, but then I get this error:

Next Problem - Error Rigid 1 - Computer Failed - Some positions cannot be resolved due to joint conflicts.

Please help.

Re: Joints and As Built Joints

kevinwatts — Tue, 05 May 2015 19:29:04 GMT

I have noticed that I already have a Joint 1. The message seems to imply the the program is trying to create another Joint 1. That would be a conflict.

How to resolve this? Please and thank you.

Re: Joints and As Built Joints

kevinwatts — Tue, 05 May 2015 20:50:44 GMT

I tried making a joint a "revolve" type. The same error message apeard and the new Revolve joint failed. Please give some sugestions. I am really stressed with this. Thank you.

Re: Joints and As Built Joints

kevinwatts — Wed, 06 May 2015 15:51:41 GMT

I am still unable to create the joints. Now getting an ERROR message. Please
see my post entries. I really need your help to overcome this obstacle.

Please and thank you.

Regards,

Kevin Watts

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Re: Joints and As Built Joints

JamieGilchrist — Tue, 05 May 2015 22:12:58 GMT

Kevin, can you share your model with us? this will help us diagnose what you are experiencing.

Re: Joints and As Built Joints

kevinwatts — Wed, 06 May 2015 11:21:36 GMT

I appreciate the offer. Yes, I may need your help. Please send confidential instructions via email. I will try a couple of things first. I was able to create a joint in a new design. Can you please remove my contact information from my last post sent by email. Thank you.

Re: Joints and As Built Joints

kevinwatts — Wed, 06 May 2015 12:26:33 GMT

I am trying to issolate the problem and need help.

I have tried a new design with a simple flat solid and screws. No problem to create a joint.

In my main project, I created a new body ("base plate with holes") and converted it to a Component. When I tried to Join the mounting screw(s) Component to the plate body, The process fails:

Error Ridgit3

Compute Failes

Some positions cannot be resolved due to joint conflicts.

1. There are two Joints that were created early in the construction process. Could they somehow be the cause behind the joint conflicts?

2. I will need the original joints for the other parts. How to proceed without damaging them or will I need to somehow remove the joint (sugest method) and then recreat all of the joints?

Re: Joints and As Built Joints

kevinwatts — Wed, 06 May 2015 15:10:52 GMT

I am under a deadline and urgently need to show some renders of my work.

If the I can not get past Errors with Joints:
1. What if I just convert the bodies to components, and move them in to the correct place and apply Materials and Appearance for now? And then render.
2. Then get the joints fixed? I think that it would be preferable to get past this obstacle first.

This morning I have tried the follow with the same Error:

1. In the main project, Created a new body with counter sunk hole and re-downloaded screw
2. Suppressing the first two joints. They were for press fittings.
http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/design-and-documentation/press-fittings-in-to-steel-plate/m-p/5573842#M11011
3. Deleting the first two joints, Ridgid1 and Ridgid2. (created some error messages)

Deleting Ridgid1

Error: Deletion cause downstream feature failures
Snapshot1
Extrude37
Rigid1
Joint Origin1
Joint Origin2
Hole1

4. Deleted another downloaded part that had spit up an error after moving (snap shot)
5. Positioned screw manually and tried an As Built Joint

Re: Joints and As Built Joints

Phil.E — Wed, 06 May 2015 15:54:20 GMT

Kevin,

I removed your contact information as you requested from the earlier post.

It sounds like you are attempting to place new joints that conflict with older joints.

The only way I can help you is if I can see and work with the model. Is there any way you can add me to the project or export the model and email it to me?

phil dot eichmiller at autodesk dot com

Thanks,

Re: Joints and As Built Joints

Phil.E — Wed, 06 May 2015 16:38:21 GMT

Kevin,

Thanks for the email reply. I'll be happy to check on your model when I get the invite. As always your data is confidential and we always will keep it that way.

Regards,

Re: Joints and As Built Joints

Phil.E — Wed, 06 May 2015 17:56:02 GMT

You have a couple of problems.

PROBLEM 1:

You had copied the BODY of the screw into another component of the screw. So it's one screw component with two bodies.

*Joints work on components only.

*The joint is failing for you, in part, because the screw component (that now has two bodies) is already jointed to the base.

STEP 1: You need to delete the extra body in the screw component.

PROBLEM 2:

There are failed features all over your timeline. The earliest of these were failed Joints. These joints are causing the downstream problem.

STEP 2: Roll the timeline to the failed failures, select them all at once, right click and delete them.

NOTE: the entire model will compute at this point, the timeline will roll all the way to the end.

SOLUTION: you can now apply joints to the screw and base.

WORKFLOW: to get more screws in the design, do not copy bodies. Select the component node in the browser, then copy and paste. The first "move" you get is free, with no snapshot, immediately after pasting.

BEST PRACTICES:

When you create failed nodes, do not leave them in the timeline.

If the failure happens as a result of an edit, fix it immediately using the following method:

* You should edit the first failed node in the timeline, attempt to preserve the features/faces/bodies that downstream features depend on, by editing rather than deleting errors when possible. (I had to delete the failed features because there was no dependency on them, and they were blocking progress.)

Re: Joints and As Built Joints

Phil.E — Wed, 06 May 2015 17:57:44 GMT

To be clear: the other failed or sick features in your timeline should be edited if at all possible rather than deleting them. If they are truly without dependencies downstream, go ahead and delete the sick or failed nodes using right click on the timeline node itself.

Re: Joints and As Built Joints

kevinwatts — Fri, 08 May 2015 12:25:43 GMT

Phil,

Good news. I was able to do as you said. I also removed the first two joints (in the timline they showed as having been already applied -duplicated - just before the failed joints) and all of the errors on the timeline. So far everything seems to have recovered and I was able to add and apply joints to the screws in the base plate.

Again, I appreciate the support!