topic Re: using a solid as a guide in Fusion Design, Validate & Document Forum

using a solid as a guide

ruben_van_lerberghe — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 08:51:33 GMT

Hello,

For a project I need to model quite a complex shape for my standards.

I made a solid volume that I thought I could use as a guide. Now for the top part I need the bands I sketched out to wrap arount the volume, following the splines in the sketch. But at this point I'm stuck. ( I thought I could project the splines onto the volume..

Any help for this part is very welcome !?

The bottom part, which are the feet, also will curve towards the back in a different direction. So maybe using 3d sketches could help me out?

Thanks in advance

Ruben

Re: using a solid as a guide

TrippyLighting — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 10:33:05 GMT

Interpreting the canvas image I have clue of what you are trying to achieve. You'd use the spit face command and then the press pull too to push in the surface inward to get the grooves.

Unfortunately, the way you approached modeling the base shape is in need of a better workflow. there are celearly visible issues that will effectively prevent a successful model.

you might gest suggestions from other forum members that help you hack through the model and ret "some" result, but I'd start from scratch.

For example making one curve for the entire circumference isn't necessarily the best approach.

Re: using a solid as a guide

ruben_van_lerberghe — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 11:12:59 GMT

Thanks @TrippyLighting

I'm not sure if you mean "no clue" or "a clue" 🙂

When splitting the face, it only does the front, so I imagine this is because the 3 lofts are not connected ?

Also I Don't know what you mean with "one curve for the entre circumference"

I actually thought I could use what I did until know as guides to go further in the FORM workspace? So I can manipulate the individual "bands". But with the splines serving as a guide. Does that make any sense?

I'll start from scratch but can you tell me what is not good in my workflow please ?

Re: using a solid as a guide

TrippyLighting — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 11:50:55 GMT

@ruben_van_lerberghe wrote:

Thanks @TrippyLighting

I'm not sure if you mean "no clue" or "a clue" 🙂

I think I have a clue and know what you are trying to do.

@ruben_van_lerberghe wrote:

When splitting the face, it only does the front, so I imagine this is because the 3 lofts are not connected ?

They are connected, but you still need to add all three faces individually to the selection of faces you want to split.

@ruben_van_lerberghe wrote:

I actually thought I could use what I did until know as guides to go further in the FORM workspace? So I can manipulate the individual "bands". But with the splines serving as a guide. Does that make any sense?

Yes, but use a little geometry/polygons as you can get away with. Do NOT add any retail , the grooves for example- until you are fully satisfied with the base form.

I very rarely uses sketches or curves as the basis for T-Spline modeling, but that can be done.

In general, your sketches are cluttered with unneeded stuff, not constrained and dimensioned enough. The mechanical-engineering-minded folks on this forum will tell you to always fully constrain and dimension your sketches, bit for your exploratory modeling, that isn't strictly necessary.

It is a good general rule for beginners, but as you move progress through your learning, you'll find out what you get get way with 😉

I am assuming you want something roughly similar to this:

The wall thicknesses are insufficient to do that, however:

Re: using a solid as a guide

ruben_van_lerberghe — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 23:14:38 GMT

Thanks again @TrippyLighting

Yes something like that. But then I need to be able to manipulate the individual bands separately and make a leg structure that also sweeps underneath which is why i thought going to the form workspace. ( you helped me out with a previous model like this where the form workspace seems more adapted. )

This might give an idea but it's still far from the finesse i'm trying to get to.

So once I have this model, modelled with properly constrained sketches :), i wanted to use it just as a reference to start from. Any tips for this method or is there a better method ?

Thanks again

Ruben

Re: using a solid as a guide

TrippyLighting — Tue, 28 Nov 2023 19:27:33 GMT

So the current model will just serve as a reference ?

You can model the overall shape as a T-Spline. Then you can cut the bands with the same method as you are using now.

Perhaps I need a much better understanding of the end result you are trying to achieve.

Re: using a solid as a guide

ruben_van_lerberghe — Tue, 28 Nov 2023 23:18:38 GMT

Yes that was the plan, as a reference. Because I thought that I would then model the bands individually and make some differentiation between them.

But if I can make the same volume with T-splines, cut it in bands and then manipulate the bands in the form workspace again, I guess that's more straightforward.

Just not sure how to start the T-spline modelling if I don't have that volume already as a solid... ?

I'm not sure if this helps for you to get an idea of where i want to go. But the leg structure on this table is the sort of shapes i want to create ( especially for the legs on this model, the bands are more 'contained' 🙂 )

Re: using a solid as a guide

TrippyLighting — Wed, 29 Nov 2023 00:09:41 GMT

Looking at the canvas image in the model attached to your first post, are those individual bands, or do they form some sort of helical structure ?

Could you pencil sketch the other side to give me an idea? It would not have to perfectly match the first image, it just needs to convey the concept you clearly have in your head.

Re: using a solid as a guide

ruben_van_lerberghe — Wed, 29 Nov 2023 09:30:15 GMT

Those are individual bands. Your method with the pipe command is very close to the end result for the top part. Only thing is that i would need to pull the bands afterwards, to have some differentiation and also form the handles. So that's why using the form workspace is necessary and also for the modelling of the feet.

I attached the same sketch but with a side view ( not very precise). But the other side would look the same, just mirrored. I could sketch it further if that helps ?

Re: using a solid as a guide

TrippyLighting — Wed, 29 Nov 2023 12:18:14 GMT

That should be easy to model. I won't have time ty do a recording until the weekend if you can wait that long.

I could try to explain this verbally but with T-Splines and Sub-D modeling that always falls short.

Your sketches are wonderful and art in themselves!

Re: using a solid as a guide

ruben_van_lerberghe — Wed, 29 Nov 2023 22:43:10 GMT

@TrippyLighting wrote:
That should be easy to model. I won't have time ty do a recording until the weekend if you can wait that long.
I could try to explain this verbally but with T-Splines and Sub-D modeling that always falls short.

Your sketches are wonderful and art in themselves!

Ofcourse it can wait until the weekend. Thank you very muchi

And thanks for the compliment, always open for commissions 🙂

Re: using a solid as a guide

ruben_van_lerberghe — Sun, 03 Dec 2023 10:36:27 GMT

I'm sorry being to push, but did can you find time to show me 'the way' ? @TrippyLighting

Re: using a solid as a guide

TrippyLighting — Sun, 03 Dec 2023 12:10:04 GMT

No worries! Here is a start. The general idea is to start with as little geometry as possible and refine later.

I am not a fast modeler, particular when it comes to T-Splines. It's almost like modeling meditation.

It will take a couple of hours for YouTube to convert this into a viewable resolution.

https://youtu.be/SjUu_Fz2nqg

Re: using a solid as a guide

ruben_van_lerberghe — Sun, 03 Dec 2023 22:18:44 GMT

great @TrippyLighting I'll have a go at this asap. Thanks so much

Re: using a solid as a guide

ruben_van_lerberghe — Sun, 10 Dec 2023 20:37:57 GMT

Hello @TrippyLighting

I was able to copy the steps you did in the youtube video 🙂

From there I tried to model the missing parts, being the feet:

-On the right it's not very far from the shape in the sketch, it needs to be a little rounder and the top should be more aligned with the bottom of the band above.

- In the middle I tried it differently ( with a plane, then thicken and then mirror). I think you can get an idea of what I try to do ( a sweep from front to back)

- on the left : the band coming down as you modelled. However this also is a sweep from front to back and so it should be open like the middle one.

And then those 3 parts should be united as the bottom body.. I had a go at merging edges but did not get anywhere.

The upper body then consists of the 6 top bands plus on the right a part of the 7th. So i wonder how I can connect these bands best into one solid body. Since it's a piece of furniture, those bands can't just be floating but are wrapped around a center part, keeping the shapes looking as they do now.

So at the end, I would have one body for the top and one for the feet. At 220mm height is where they meet.

Any advice how to take it from here? I attached the model.

Kind regards,

Ruben

Re: using a solid as a guide

ruben_van_lerberghe — Sun, 07 Jan 2024 00:12:55 GMT

Hello

I'm still going between 2 versions, both of which you were kind enough to help me with @TrippyLighting

Now i just want to extrude some faces of the t-spline but for the faces ( using the alt-key) it works, the other 2 give me a twisted shape, What am I missing ?

If someone has some pointers for the other questions in my previous post, would also be appreciated. Trying to wrap my head around all the sculpting possibilities.

Thanks in any case,

Ruben

Re: using a solid as a guide

ruben_van_lerberghe — Sun, 07 Jan 2024 19:46:18 GMT

Hello,

Just noticed that when I extrude in box-mode it all looks fine but in smooth display mode, something twists..

Re: using a solid as a guide

TrippyLighting — Mon, 08 Jan 2024 12:01:07 GMT

Please share the model.

Re: using a solid as a guide

ruben_van_lerberghe — Mon, 08 Jan 2024 13:16:42 GMT

Here is the model, I already extruded it so you can see that 2 of the faces twist.

Thank you @TrippyLighting

Re: using a solid as a guide

TrippyLighting — Mon, 08 Jan 2024 20:32:54 GMT

You created a lot of overlapping faces. Those need to be eliminated:

(view in My Videos)