topic Re: How to use 'move/copy' function to generate copied bodies in required position in Fusion Design, Validate & Document Forum

How to use 'move/copy' function to generate copied bodies in required position

chengmjW2EAH — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 06:43:20 GMT

Hi there, I want to design an implant, the basic structure of which involved 16 sets of cylinder and ring as shown in the first figure. First rule of the design is that all rings or cylinders are same in size, but different in position and location. The other rule is that the lateral surfaces of the ring are parallel to the lateral surface of affiliated cylinder.

The cylinders were imported from elsewhere, so their location and position are already fixed. What I need to do is to generate rings for each cylinder. I drew one and aligned it with according cylinder so that they would be parallel. I don't want to repeat this procedure for 16 times. Therefore, I tried the 'move and copy-point to point' function. However, no matter which structures I selected, face or circles or centres, copied rings won't fit exactly (the second figure). Is adding a second step of aligning is the only solution to this problem or I just used the 'move/copy' function wrongly? If so, what's the correct way? Thanks very much!

Re: How to use 'move/copy' function to generate copied bodies in required position

davebYYPCU — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 07:19:20 GMT

Normally create one set of parts complete, (built in place helps)

then copy it 16 times with a Pattern.

Copy / Move point to point, should not cause errors.

Might help...

Re: How to use 'move/copy' function to generate copied bodies in required position

TrippyLighting — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 16:29:30 GMT

Here's the process I would use, but bear in mind that we have not seen your data/model.

Firs I would upload the design with that cylinder and see if the origin in it is in a sensible location. Often it is, but sometimes it isn't. I would NOT enable the timeline in the design of that cylinder. If the origin is not in a sensible location, e.g. in the center of the cylinder, or centered to the end-face of the cylinder, I would use the point-to-point move operation to get it there and then save and close the design

Then I would create a new design and create a new component. Lets call it Cylinder & Ring Assembly.

The component is automatically activated. Now I would insert the cylinder design from the data panel into the new Design. If the origin of the cylinder was in a sensible location, I would not create an as-built joint between the cylinder the the origin of the Cylinder & Ring Assembly component. That will lock the cylinder in place in that assembly.

Now, with the Cylinder & Ring Assembly still activated, I would create another component Ring and make sure it is activated (it should be by default activated right adfter creation).

Create the necessary sketches, construction geomertry and 3D geometry for the Ring.

Activate the Cylinder & Ring Assembly and use an assembly joint to join the Ring to the Cylinder.

Activate the top level.

Use a joint to place the Cylinder & Ring Assembly to the location you want to start the pattern.

Create a component pattern. with the Cylinder & Ring Assembly.

Create a Rigid Group Joint (with Include child components un-checked!) including all instances of the the Cylinder & Ring Assembly including the seed instance.

Now you have a proper and fully parametric assembly.

Re: How to use 'move/copy' function to generate copied bodies in required position

johnanger — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 20:15:55 GMT

I think what you want is actually quite simple. Instead of using the move command use the 'Align' command under "Modify"

Here I approximately drew your parts. Then I moved the angle position of the parts around to look like your cloud of parts.

Pick align, pick the round end of the bar, then pick the edge of the hole.

The parts align like this.

Then you can use the move command on the cylinder object to slide the cylinder back and forth in the hole into final position. Voila! maybe?

Re: How to use 'move/copy' function to generate copied bodies in required position

davebYYPCU — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 20:17:45 GMT

No mention of Joint/s?

Re: How to use 'move/copy' function to generate copied bodies in required position

johnanger — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 20:18:34 GMT

Oh I think you want the cylinders to stay in position and the rings to move. No problem just reverse the picking order, align command, pick the ring first, then the shaft, and move/slide the ring into position.

Re: How to use 'move/copy' function to generate copied bodies in required position

johnanger — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 20:31:23 GMT

I anticipate your next question is how do duplicate the ring 16 times? There are a number of ways. One simple quick way is to just copy/paste the body.

Paste gives you a new body, and puts up the move dialog. Put the new body somewhere and then use "Align" as before.

Re: How to use 'move/copy' function to generate copied bodies in required position

johnanger — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 20:40:06 GMT

No joints. The OP didn't ask for anything that needs joints. I think they just wanted to efficiently move parts around and align them nicely. The Move command can be quite awkward - Align is a great short cut.

Re: How to use 'move/copy' function to generate copied bodies in required position

davebYYPCU — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 20:52:06 GMT

But he has asked how to avoid your suggestion.

Assembly or a bunch of parts?

Re: How to use 'move/copy' function to generate copied bodies in required position

TheCADWhisperer — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 21:06:41 GMT

@chengmjW2EAH

Caution - a lot of questionable advice in this thread.

Component (multiple instances of same Component(s)

Perhaps Sub-Assembly

Joints.

No Move, no Align...

Re: How to use 'move/copy' function to generate copied bodies in required position

johnanger — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 22:20:10 GMT

True but. .. reading between the lines. If she was trying to get the rings onto the cylinders using just Move it's quite tedious to get it to the exact shaft position and angles in 3 axis to match and align to the cylinder. And then do that 16 times. The point to point move does not handle the angle mis-alignment - I don't think. When I do a move like that I get the below. Is there another way? Using align you would have to do it 16 times, but it is quick.

Re: How to use 'move/copy' function to generate copied bodies in required position

johnanger — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 22:05:50 GMT

I"m here to learn too.

> The cylinders were imported from elsewhere, so their location and position are already fixed.

Respectfully gents - the OP says the cylinders are located and positioned already - and it's not a pattern - they are in a bunch of odd locations and angles, it's biological I think as the OP said "designing an implant". The ring needs to be aligned to those cylinders. OP - is this some sort of scolios treatment or spine implant?

Help us understand CAD whisp & other experts. You could as you recommend define the ring and cylinder as a component, tie them together with a joint, and create the 16 instances. How do you align those component instances to the cylinders in the right location and angles in 3 axes?

I'm not clear on why it would make sense to design a new cylinder as part of an assembly as the import already brought in 16 cylinders - maybe replace all those imported cylinders with the assembly?

Copy pasting the body 16 times as I suggested is a mess, yes, and it could cause a lot of trouble later. It's simplistic, naive even, yes. Using components, joints, assembly is better practice, and it also means a lot more learning to gain those skills. Sometimes you just need to get your project done. But please - explain a little more if you care to.

Re: How to use 'move/copy' function to generate copied bodies in required position

davebYYPCU — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 23:20:43 GMT

Move is generally not the correct process, and if your demo provides that result, then it shows it is not the correct tool.

The question was for better efficiency, you now have 2 of us recommending Joints, and you saying they are not asked for.

Joints incorporate, move, align and constraints in the one process - limited to assembling components.

We don’t have the op file, to investigate and advise.

My initial response was to create the subassembly and position it 16 times if there is no pattern, so be it.

Might help…..

Re: How to use 'move/copy' function to generate copied bodies in required position

TrippyLighting — Sat, 09 Dec 2023 01:43:59 GMT

p@johnanger wrote:

I"m here to learn too.

In that case I would recommend you take the time to try the workflow I described in my first reply in this thread.

the workflow you are proposing is certainly possible, but incredibly inefficient and ineffective.

A unique thing about component patterns in Fusion 360 is that they only create instances, but do not lock the instances in place. That is way faster that copy/pasting individual components 16 times.
If you first create the assembly and then create the pattern of that assembly you are done in less than a hand full of minutes.

Re: How to use 'move/copy' function to generate copied bodies in required position

chengmjW2EAH — Thu, 14 Dec 2023 02:23:39 GMT

Thanks for your detailed reply. This workflow does work for my project. I'm a beginner in Fusion 360. Move/Copy and Align tool is easier to grasp, but I hope there is a more efficient approach. Therefore, I'll spend extra time exploring other choices suggested in the replies.

Re: How to use 'move/copy' function to generate copied bodies in required position

TrippyLighting — Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:42:41 GMT

I described a vastly more efficient approach in my post. In detail!

Re: How to use 'move/copy' function to generate copied bodies in required position

TheCADWhisperer — Thu, 14 Dec 2023 12:39:25 GMT

@chengmjW2EAH

Fortunately there is.

Can you File>Export your *.f3d file to your local drive and then Attach it here to a Reply?