topic Re: Sketch is still crap in Fusion Design, Validate & Document Forum

Sketch is still crap

yoshimitsuspeed — Sun, 28 Feb 2016 21:21:00 GMT

It's like the sketching solver goes out of it's way to F your sketch. If it can reverse your tangents it will. If it can take an arc from 90 to 270 it will. I am so sick of this. Every time I try to use F360 a project like this that should take 30 min takes 3 hours because I am constantly chasing bugs or errors.

It also still completely fails at showing overconstraints or acting fully constrained when it shouldn't be. Since it doesn't tell you it's over constrained or where you just have to start deleting parts of the sketch until it allows you to do something again.
Please fix the sketch environment. This is ridiculous.

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/community/screencast/ef26d156-cd5e-4949-82c5-c58c3460f904

Re: Sketch is still crap

yoshimitsuspeed — Sun, 28 Feb 2016 21:47:14 GMT

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/community/screencast/984e74d9-71b4-44f0-8267-494a286f8a1c

Re: Sketch is still crap

daniel_lyall — Sun, 28 Feb 2016 21:55:29 GMT

old bug has come back first vid, a new bug second vid

Re: Sketch is still crap

jiang_peng — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 03:41:42 GMT

The sketch looks very complex. It's hard to diagnose from the video. Could you please share the design to me or directly attach the f3d file here?

My email is: Jiang.Peng@autodesk.com

Thanks for reporting the issue!

Re: Sketch is still crap

yoshimitsuspeed — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 02:08:01 GMT

Yeah sure let me share my proprietary work on the internet.
It's bad enough I have to post part of it in a video but I know if I didn't you guys would act completely clueless.

I really find it offensive that this is the go to move for AD and the forums. It makes me think that you guys really just assume the majority of people uisng your software are just messing around with it. Of course it does often seem as though that is more ADs target audience than working professionals.

Make your own sketch. I am quite sure I could reproduce these issues and a dozen others in 30 minutes of messing around.

Edited by
Discussion_Admin

Re: Sketch is still crap

michallach81 — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 11:29:47 GMT

so kind

Re: Sketch is still crap

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 13:32:29 GMT

@michallach81 wrote:
so kind

Understandable though.

I have been in a situation where I lost work because of a buggy performance while a client and I was trying to get the design my customer wanted.

Personally sharing models is no problem for me. But I don't usually have too. Talking with ADSK over the phone and team viewer always gets a result I can use.

Fostering a good relationship with the ADSK bods pay dividends.

But it I do get the frustration when you just trying to get something done.

Re: Sketch is still crap

yoshimitsuspeed — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 17:00:39 GMT

You guys have to understand that this is not a one time thing or a once in a while issue.
I have lost so much time to F360 that I actually started time tracking that time for about 3 months and in that time I logged 14 hours lost due to bugs, glitches, crashes and other issues.
In just 3 months that was the equivelant of $1100 of my time lost. And it never ends. Every time I open up F360 it's like reverse Christmas. Time to find out what still hasn't been resolved, and to see what the most recent update messed up, and see what feature I liked that they removed with the intention of replacing it with something that they think will be better at some point down the road.
At this point Kissing ADs butts is not at the top of my priority list. Seeing F360 becomes what they keep promising it is however is.

Re: Sketch is still crap

michallach81 — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 17:08:07 GMT

So, how can we help you?

Re: Sketch is still crap

schneik-adsk — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 17:13:52 GMT

@yoshimitsuspeed

Getting data from users is the first line of attack for all Autodesk applications when trying to reproduce and fix customer issues. The AutoCAD team will ask and the Inventor team will ask. Data and steps to reproduce is the fastest way to help the software team understand the problem and fix it. I can personally attest to companies working on DOD, aerospace and other projects that are happy to share data (often under NDA) with us. Please don't go off and make tangential insults when we only are trying to help.

I have tried to replicate your problem for an hour now and can not.

I understand you are frustrated and you want this fixed. Help us do that. You can always email us and we can handle this case off the forum in a way that meets your concern for privacy. If that means an NDA we can do that too. Brian will reach out in email so we can work on this is a way that address your security concern.

Re: Sketch is still crap

daniel_lyall — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:01:30 GMT

@yoshimitsuspeed if it's that bad why are you still useing it. you have had problems for a long time but still you use it

Re: Sketch is still crap

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:01:49 GMT

@yoshimitsuspeed

Im curious.

Is this a issue that has happened after the update? Daniel mentioned in his post that the first issue is a old bug come back. The second is a new bug.

if my replies seam like they come from a ADSK fan boy, then that's just how it seams. If there is something wrong then it should be fixed. I would never hold back from telling the bods that something is wrong. But I have never found a problem that the team can't help out with.

A email telling them your cross works wonders. Average help time from the ADSK team has been 2-3 hours unless it requires a update.

They will also sign any NDA you ask them to sign. They did for me.

@schneik-adsk

what is the current thinking within the ADSK fusion team, regarding the comunitiy conversation about slowing the updates time frame down?

Or letting a comunitiy beta testing group lose on the update so we can test it over a wider groups machines and set up? I know there is a plan. But constantly having to deal with forum complaints can't help the image of fusion very much!

Re: Sketch is still crap

daniel_lyall — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:08:51 GMT

@Anonymous what you give to the fusion team. you get from the fusion team what you give

Re: Sketch is still crap

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:13:03 GMT

@daniel_lyall

Very true!

Same is true for the community in general.

Re: Sketch is still crap

yoshimitsuspeed — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:42:02 GMT

@daniel_lyall wrote:
@yoshimitsuspeed if it's that bad why are you still useing it. you have had problems for a long time but still you use it

Because now I have over a years worth of designs in F360. Even a small business like mine switching to another CAD program is an insanely massive setback.
I have been looking at other options. I really want to get NX but that's a hard financial pill to swallow. I keep trying to convince myself maybe I wouldn't need to spend $10k on CAD, maybe it will get better in the next couple updates. But nope, so yeah I am looking into it a little more again.

Re: Sketch is still crap

yoshimitsuspeed — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:49:48 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@yoshimitsuspeed
Im curious.
Is this a issue that has happened after the update? Daniel mentioned in his post that the first issue is a old bug come back. The second is a new bug.
if my replies seam like they come from a ADSK fan boy, then that's just how it seams. If there is something wrong then it should be fixed. I would never hold back from telling the bods that something is wrong. But I have never found a problem that the team can't help out with.
A email telling them your cross works wonders. Average help time from the ADSK team has been 2-3 hours unless it requires a update.
They will also sign any NDA you ask them to sign. They did for me.
@schneik-adsk
what is the current thinking within the ADSK fusion team, regarding the comunitiy conversation about slowing the updates time frame down?
Or letting a comunitiy beta testing group lose on the update so we can test it over a wider groups machines and set up? I know there is a plan. But constantly having to deal with forum complaints can't help the image of fusion very much!

When I started working in F360 yesterday it notified me that it was downloading an update and that it would notify me when the download was complete or when I was supposed to restart the program or whatever it says. I never saw a notification that the updated was complete or telling me to restart or anything. In hindsight it did freeze a couple times and I force quit it so maybe it just did what it had to do on that restart. IDK. So who knows what was before or after the update but how much does it really matter? These are bugs that should have been completely ironed out long ago.

Re: Sketch is still crap

yoshimitsuspeed — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 20:06:28 GMT

@schneik-adsk wrote:
@yoshimitsuspeed

Getting data from users is the first line of attack for all Autodesk applications when trying to reproduce and fix customer issues. The AutoCAD team will ask and the Inventor team will ask. Data and steps to reproduce is the fastest way to help the software team understand the problem and fix it. I can personally attest to companies working on DOD, aerospace and other projects that are happy to share data (often under NDA) with us. Please don't go off and make tangential insults when we only are trying to help.

I have tried to replicate your problem for an hour now and can not.

I understand you are frustrated and you want this fixed. Help us do that. You can always email us and we can handle this case off the forum in a way that meets your concern for privacy. If that means an NDA we can do that too. Brian will reach out in email so we can work on this is a way that address your security concern.

The first video is trying to get the sketch fully constrained. Once it is as yours is then it will often behave normally within certian parameters but very often if you try to make a big change, say taking a dimension from 10 to 50 it will still often flip out and reverse tangencies or flip an arc all the way around. I finally got that section fully constrained by finding the exact order to add constraints in but just that one added probably 30 min to the project. In all I probably lost over an hour to constraint, flipping tangets and similar issues yesterday.

The constraint error is sporatic and I think has mostly to do with the solver.
The biggest problem is that it can be overconstrained and still let you do some things and not others. The worst part is that it doesn't tell you where the constraint conflict is so you need to just start deleting your sketch or constraints till it starts to work again. Then some times it won't be over constrained but it will be 100% convinced it is. I have had this happen on such simple sketches that I could be 100% sure it wasn't overconstrained. Or like in that second video where when I try to move it by hand and it allows free movement but when I try to dimension it all of a sudden it's over constrained.
If the sketch is overconstrained then the conflicting constraints shoudl be highlited or something. If the solver can't find the conflicting constraints then it should not throw an over constrained error.

There are other times that

Re: Sketch is still crap

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 21:24:29 GMT

Wow that would drive me up the wall too.

No wonder you are frustrated.

Re: Sketch is still crap

thoreaubakker — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 21:30:51 GMT

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hater_%28Internet%29

Re: Sketch is still crap

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 23:16:29 GMT

@thoreaubakker wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hater_%28Internet%29

So how was that ether helpful or constructive?