topic Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates in Fusion Design, Validate & Document Forum

Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

Anonymous — Tue, 03 May 2016 20:48:33 GMT

I am reverse engineering parts and need to enter construction points at XYZ coordinates.

Points only move to a relative position, there are no absolute dimension fields.

Dimensions to 0,0,0 wont work because the points are not on the same plane.

I need these construction points for manual measurements or when using CMM.

Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

TrippyLighting — Tue, 03 May 2016 20:56:02 GMT

You can use the offset costruction plane command and then offset another plane from the first offset plane.

Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

Anonymous — Tue, 03 May 2016 21:13:19 GMT

Trippy, I have used that method for simple parts, but it is not feasible when there are hundreds of points at different Z heights. When I'm using the Microscibe CMM, there may be thousands of points.

In other software packages, you can enter a XYZ location for points and then create construction planes from the points.

There should be a simple X_,Y_,Z_ entry form when making points.

Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

innovatenate — Tue, 03 May 2016 22:07:42 GMT

I note that the status of the precise input Idea is set to accepted and that this feature enhancment is back-logged.

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/ideastation-request-a-feature-or/precision-input-needed-to-position-geometry/idi-p/5418141

Manually entering in 1000's of XYZ coordinates seems like it would be prone to error and very time consuming. I mentioned a script in our previous discussions (below) you can use to auto-matically import points using a CSV file.

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/design-validate-document/enter-point-location-using-xyz/m-p/5680038#M25696

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/design-validate-document/enter-point-location-using-xyz/m-p/5677580

Did you ever get a chance to try this out? I attached a custom script that was modified to create sketch points from the CSV file instead of a sketch spline.

The CSV file must be comprised of numeric values of the X coordinates in column A, Y coordinates in column B, and the Z coordinates in column C.

Below is a screencast showing how the default ImportSplineCSV import works.

Let us know if you have any questions.

Thanks,

Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

Anonymous — Tue, 03 May 2016 22:38:19 GMT

Nathan,

I have used the CSV import and it works, except for the fact that you get lost importing all the points at once.

Entering thousands of point would be very error prone, but, The Microscibe software is very intelligent, and it can insert a single points location into a cad systems XYZ form with a single click (if the cad system has a XYZ data form).

We do lots of work on complex engine cases, cylinder heads and stuff like that, we need to be able to enter points and make planes from a small section of the part, get the modeling straightened out and then move to the next section.

The idea has been sitting in the idea station for quite a while, I was just hoping there was a current viable solution.

Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

innovatenate — Tue, 03 May 2016 23:11:32 GMT

Does the microscribe software have the ability to generate a mesh file format like STL or OBJ?

I know you can insert a mesh file into Fusion 360 and easily start to reverse engineer from a mesh file. This may be an alternate route you could take.

I was also noting these comments on the below microscribe page:

http://www.3d-microscribe.com/MUS%20Page.htm

If your application supports command line or dialog entry of 3D coordinates, this utility might already work or can be easily made to work with your application. If you would like your application to be supported by MicroScribe Utility Software, please contact us. MicroScribe Utility Software offers a way of interfacing your application to the MicroScribe with little or no change to your application.

Perhaps Mircoscribe would be able to create a script that is tailored for Fusion 360 that does exactly what you are looking to do. Fusion 360 does have a API resources to help automate tasks like this. I hope this information is helpful.

Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

Anonymous — Wed, 04 May 2016 01:28:13 GMT

I'm not sure an stl would help our process, right now I am working on a 4 cyl 16 valve drag bike head, the valve angles will be altered to fit larger valves, and intake and exhaust ports will be relocated for increased air flow. So, I'm not trying to make a surface map of the head, I need to pick off individual measurements of critical surfaces and design one step at a time. once you start trying to bring in a surface map, it start to feel more like your working with a bitmap than a vector file.

My workflow in a different cad program---

Start with the piston side of an intake port-

pick 3 points at the top of the valve guide and make a plane and a 3 point circle

pick 3 points at the bottom of the valve guide and make a plane and a 3 point circle

create an axis through the center of the 2 3point circles for the center of the guide

off this axis create a plane 90 degrees at the valve seat height

I think you get the idea, there are hundreds of different planes and thousands of points by the time your done modeling a head. Each of these points are entered into the cam software automatically by stepping on the foot switch on the Microscribe using the MUS software. There is no manual data input.

The MUS software can interface with just about any software, but it cannot interface with Fusion because there is no XYZ input dialog for points.

The XYZ dialog seems like a tiny issue, but it is one (along with a couple others) that are preventing me from using Fusion as my front line software.

Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

Anonymous — Wed, 04 May 2016 01:57:32 GMT

OK, another roadblock-

Make 3 random points on any plane

Move these 3 points to any random Z height, except for 0

Make a plane from these 3 points

pick the new plane and try to pick the same 3 points for a 3 point circle

The points will not snap, even though they created this new plane. Is there a workaround for this?

Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

PhilProcarioJr — Wed, 04 May 2016 09:37:47 GMT

@Anonymous

Select the 3 points when your in the sketch and hit the P key.

Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

PhilProcarioJr — Wed, 04 May 2016 09:49:06 GMT

@Anonymous

Actually there is a way to do this, although it's not ideal.

If you create a point at the origin 0,0,0 then hit the move key you can move that point to an exact X,Y,Z location.

Just make sure 3d sketching is enabled.

http://autode.sk/1Uyeq81

Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

Anonymous — Wed, 04 May 2016 15:16:51 GMT

@PhilProcarioJr wrote:
@Anonymous
Select the 3 points when your in the sketch and hit the P key.

Great suggestion, but I've tried that. The only point that snaps is the 0,0 on the new work plane, the rest will not.

Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

ekinsb — Wed, 04 May 2016 22:24:51 GMT

Just to clarify what's actually needed. Do you want a command that creates a single construction point but that allows you to specify the X, Y, Z coordinates of the construction point? You want to enter the coordinates manually, point-by-point? I believe a small script can be written to do that.

There's another alternative that doesn't use a script and is simpler that creating a lot of other construction geometry, but is still a couple of steps so it's not ideal either.

If you're capturing design history you need to first create a "Base Feature" using the "Create Base Feature" command in the "Create" menu. The reason for this is that Fusion doesn't currently support work geometry in a parametric model that isn't based on other geometry. You can't have a point that's freely positioned in space. However, in a non-parametric model, or in a base feature you can do that.

In the non-parametric model or with the base feature active, create a construction point using the "Point at Vertex" option and either in the graphics window or the browser, choose the base Origin point. Now you have a construction point at (0,0,0).

Run the "Move" command and select the construction point just created. Now in the Move dialog you can specify the x, y, and z coordinates to reposition the point.

Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

Anonymous — Wed, 04 May 2016 23:32:24 GMT

@ekinsb wrote:
Just to clarify what's actually needed. Do you want a command that creates a single construction point but that allows you to specify the X, Y, Z coordinates of the construction point? You want to enter the coordinates manually, point-by-point? I believe a small script can be written to do that.

Yes, that is exactly what I need. A script would be great. I'll try your other ideas.
TM

Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

Anonymous — Thu, 05 May 2016 02:09:56 GMT

In the non-parametric model or with the base feature active, create a construction point using the "Point at Vertex" option and either in the graphics window or the browser, choose the base Origin point. Now you have a construction point at (0,0,0).

Run the "Move" command and select the construction point just created. Now in the Move dialog you can specify the x, y, and z coordinates to reposition the point.

@ekinsb

When I follow these instructions, the point that is created is grounded to the base feature. I've tried every filter and type of selection, but the point cannot be moved without moving the base feature.

Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

ekinsb — Thu, 05 May 2016 03:03:23 GMT

Here's a Screencast that demonstrates the workflow. The base feature needs to be active anytime you want to add a new point.

Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

Anonymous — Thu, 05 May 2016 12:49:12 GMT

@ekinsb

I do not have the create base feature button that you select at 0:09. What is it?

Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

ekinsb — Thu, 05 May 2016 15:33:32 GMT

The Base Feature command is only available when you're capturing design history (parametric modeling). It lets you have an island of direct modeling within a parametric model. If you're not capturing the design history (direct modeling), which is sounds like this is the mode you're in, then you don't need it and can skip the Base Feature steps so it's a simpler process. Basically, create the construction point on the origin point and move it to the desired location.

Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

innovatenate — Thu, 05 May 2016 15:56:46 GMT

This link shows how to enable and disable design history in a design. This is how you can toggle between a parametric design and a direct modeling design.

http://knowledge.autodesk.com/article/How-to-switch-between-a-parametric-or-direct-modeling-environment-in-Autodesk-Fusion-360

Hope that helps!

Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

Anonymous — Thu, 05 May 2016 17:11:32 GMT

@ekinsb wrote:
The Base Feature command is only available when you're capturing design history (parametric modeling). It lets you have an island of direct modeling within a parametric model. If you're not capturing the design history (direct modeling), which is sounds like this is the mode you're in, then you don't need it and can skip the Base Feature steps so it's a simpler process. Basically, create the construction point on the origin point and move it to the desired location.

@ekinsb

OK, Now it makes sense. This is starting to prove that it may be possible to do what I need, but there are just too many steps involved to make it usable. Could these steps be put into a script? How would a person start designing this script? Are there any examples that could be modified?

Re: Enter a construction point using XYZ coordinates

ekinsb — Thu, 05 May 2016 17:51:06 GMT

There's a Fusion update coming this weekend that adds base feature support in the API. With that I'll be able to write a script that will work for both parametric and direct modeling models. I'll post an update here when the script is available.