topic Re: object snaps in Fusion Design, Validate & Document Forum

object snaps

Anonymous — Fri, 27 May 2016 10:07:09 GMT

I am new to Fusion 360 - I have lots of previous experience with Solidworks and Rhino.

The Fusion 360 interface seems pretty good. However I am struggling to find whereabouts I can turn object snaps ("osnaps" in Rhino) on or off. For example, to snap sketch geometry to the centre of a circle, to quad points on an ellipse, to tangent to an arc etc etc. All these functions are fundamental to drafting and modelling in Rhino and Solidworks but I just cant find them anywhere in Fusion 360 - am I missing something?

Many thanks - Peter

Re: object snaps

jeff_strater — Fri, 27 May 2016 10:49:08 GMT

Hi @Anonymous,

Fusion does not today support OSnaps like Rhino or AutoCAD. However there is an idea in the IdeaStation for this: object-snap-is-really-needed, so if this is something you feel is needed, feel free to vote for it.

Jeff

Re: object snaps

PhilProcarioJr — Fri, 27 May 2016 11:02:07 GMT

@jeff_strater

141 votes and its still just a consideration? Is there a reason this is not on the roadmap? Just curious.

Re: object snaps

LibertyMachine — Fri, 27 May 2016 11:13:56 GMT

141 votes, 4 pages of comments and the original IdeaStation post from 2013.....Future Consideration....hmmm...

Re: object snaps

PhilProcarioJr — Fri, 27 May 2016 11:39:11 GMT

@jeff_strater

If this was some advanced feature that no other CAD app had I could understand, but this is considered to be a pretty basic feature that is standard in every cad app I have ever used. The fact that it is 3 years old and a basic standard feature.... kind of makes the Ideastation concept seem flawed....

Just my 2 cents

Re: object snaps

LibertyMachine — Fri, 27 May 2016 11:42:24 GMT

I could only assume that perhaps they are trying to make the software "intelligent" enough to by-pass the need for a manual snap option.

Re: object snaps

PhilProcarioJr — Fri, 27 May 2016 12:04:36 GMT

@LibertyMachine

One of the reasons I never complained about not have toggle options for snaps is because of the intelligent snaps that do exist, but I have to be honest sometimes the intelligent snaps are annoying at best and I would like to disable them and just do manual snapping. I don't always want to snap to everything. Sometimes I just want to snap to a point, sometimes I just want to snap to an edge or a center point. Case in point thank god we can turn off auto projection because it clutters up a sketch very fast. If I want to project a point, line, arc, etc...I will hit the P key and project it....I should be able to do the same with snaps. I toggle box like this:

The other issue in question here is I have seen things get less then 10 votes and next thing I know it's a new feature...and yes I understand that the code was probably in place and it took little effort to impliment said feature, but anything that has 100+ votes should be considered to be important in the grand scheme of things. Like I said this is just my opinion though.

Re: object snaps

HughesTooling — Fri, 27 May 2016 12:12:19 GMT

I don't remember ever seeing them in other solid modelers I've used, not that that a reason Fusion shouldn't do something new. The new midpoint snap gets in the way all the time, I'd definitely like to turn that one off most of the time.

Mark

Re: object snaps

jeff_strater — Fri, 27 May 2016 23:21:51 GMT

fair enough, @PhilProcarioJr. This one is a bit of an internal debate, as well as a priority/resource issue. As @LibertyMachine suspects, there is some thought that believes that you should not need object snaps, that OSnaps are really more appropriate for a non-parametric modeler like Rhino or AutoCAD. There is some question, for a parametric modeler, whether OSnaps, if we implemented them would create persistent constraints (think quadrant points on a circle - is that just a temporary snap, or a constraint that says this point has to always be on a quadrant point?). I'm sure we'll get there eventually, in some form.

Jeff

Re: object snaps

PhilProcarioJr — Sat, 28 May 2016 11:45:30 GMT

@jeff_strater

"there is some thought that believes that you should not need object snaps, that OSnaps are really more appropriate for a non-parametric modeler like Rhino or AutoCAD."

Ah but here we have our first issue Fusion is BOTH parametric and non-parametric. I now find myself using T-Splines more and more and now I'm pulling my hair out because I don't have this basic functionality. Take any Maya or 3dsMax user tell them they can't use snaps and watch them flip out.

In T-splines when splitting faces you do get a snap to the middle of a line but that's it, and I have to be honest all that does is tease at whats possible and show a limitation of the tools.

I could go on and on about whats missing from the T-Spline environment but I will leave that for another day.

All CAD, polygon, sub-d, and NURBS modeling apps can benefit from snaps. I don't care if they are parametric or not and let me explain why.

Fast conceptual design and iteration...My clients have ideas and most of the time those ideas are not fully realized. I need fast ways to do this and what I find myself doing is relying more and more on Maya and Lightwave. Don't get me wrong I never want to stop using those apps but I would like to spend more time in Fusion getting things done and less time jumping back and forth...

The smart shops that develop prototypes of new design concepts will use a polygon modeler like Maya, 3dsmax, Modo, Lightwave..etc. to flesh out a design fast. This is why Modo and Solidworks jumped into bed together. They saw the need and so should Autodesk. Why do they do this because then can model out a design 10x faster in those apps. Since we already know why they can do it faster in those apps we will move on.

"There is some question, for a parametric modeler, whether OSnaps, if we implemented them would create persistent constraints (think quadrant points on a circle - is that just a temporary snap, or a constraint that says this point has to always be on a quadrant point?)."

Please make sure you let the Devs know NOT to create constraints based on snaps, or at the very least allow us to turn that on and off because automatic constraint creation drives me and many others crazy in other CAD apps. I know of much better ways to handle this with the snapping options I talked about earlier and if you or the other devs would like to discuss this I am always available to talk.

Thanks for your time Jeff.

Re: object snaps

HughesTooling — Sat, 28 May 2016 11:50:50 GMT

@jeff_strater I have a couple of ideas, how about adding 2 rows of radio buttons to the sketch palette, there's plenty of room.

One row would allow the user to pick which snaps are running all the time, like I said the mid point snap gets in the way all the time. See this screen cast where someone's trying to demonstrate a bug, look how many times the midpoint snap gets in the way!

Then have a second row of buttons that are one shot, so you'd select end point for example, for just the next selection only endpoints would be available. One thing I've noticed, there's no centre point snap, if you have a big arc you have to zoom out until you can see the centre point and pick it, you can't even use a concentric constraint between a line end point and an arc.

@jeff_strater wrote:

if we implemented them would create persistent constraints (think quadrant points on a circle - is that just a temporary snap, or a constraint that says this point has to always be on a quadrant point?).

Jeff

I see the snaps would add constants by the way.

Mark

Re: object snaps

Anonymous — Sat, 28 May 2016 12:15:16 GMT

Jeff - I've been using 3D CAD for over 20 years, including autodesk products, rhino and solidworks And pro engineer

believe me, Osnaps are essential for accurate, efficient modelling, parametric or non parametric (it is also a good idea to have Osnaps that can be turned on an off easily, as in rhino)

you need to listen to your user community - Osnaps are vital! And without this basic sketching and modelling functionality, I can imagine many users will be put off fusion 360, especially if they have experience using other software where these features are standard in the user interface

Peter

Re: object snaps

jeff_strater — Sat, 28 May 2016 13:27:48 GMT

I agree with you, @HughesTooling about that midpoint snap on dimension/constraint. I find I rarely use it, and the rest of the time it gets in the way. Similarly in Measure, the snap points get in the way, IMO. So, it would be nice to be able to shut those off easier. We have been having discussions recently about these topics. Part of the problem is that there is not just a single snap mechanism in Fusion. Sketch snapping during curve creation is different than during constraint/dimension creation, and snapping for Measure/Joints/Align is another system. So, we'd like to unify all this if we can.

Your ideas about using the sketch palette are good ones, I think. Although we have also been talking about a weight loss program for the palette, since it takes up so much room already.

Thanks for the input, we value and appreciate input from the people who spend so much time in Fusion.

Jeff

Re: object snaps

LibertyMachine — Sat, 28 May 2016 13:59:43 GMT

My 2 cents? Make use of Alt or similar commands. Alt+right click (or similar) drop down a very short list of user configured temporary snaps. I mean really, how many do you NEED for typical construction? Fusion already has one for endpoints, so that leaves concentric, quadrant (I need this one often), midpoint, tangent, perpindicular. That's just off the top of my head and what I think would be needed. Perhaps a couple more?

Click line or circle (L or C Keyboard)

Alt+Rt Click, select the temp snap

Click start point, Alt+Rt Click if needed to define endpoint.

Re: object snaps

vavalexus3NZYR — Tue, 07 Nov 2017 15:00:39 GMT

I just gave Fusion 360 a try after I got to know that Rhino 6 will not have Tsplines aboard. I was looking something as fast as Rhino, but with parametric touch as SolidWorks. I use both of these application but thinking about something in between. Fusion 360 seems to be quite impressive and really easy to get on with, but there are few serious disadvantages that won’t let me migrate to it.

Tsplines are really not the same I use in Rhino. Fusion Tsplies functional is very limited. Not possible to insert an edge between edge/polygon ring, not possible to select if you want it to be inserted based on the distance, neither then a percentage. It is really frustrating. Tsplines in Rhino 5 are much weaker than 3D Max polygonal modeling. Tsplines in Fusion are much weaker than those in Rhino. Hope it will catch up soon
Snaps. I came across this subject because I was looking a solution with regards to osnaps/snaps. I cannot imagine working fast and precise without snaps. Not having them in Fusion one of the most serious disadvantages that makes me put it off. I want to snap to the quad of the circle sketch and move it to the edge of the solid. This simple task seems to be impossible in Fusion.
Direct modeling in Rhino WIP allows to move/rotate/scale edges and to manipulate vertexes changing the model shape, this is very convenient! And I am surprised that Fusion allows to directly manipulate only faces. Draft or Tspline+crease is not the solution I want to use.

I was at first really amazed at the application, but now I realized that it is not perfect and cannot replace my usual workflow of Rhino+Tsplines and SolidWorks. But the potential of the application is huge and I hope one day it will replace it. Being able to combine tsplines with solid editing without losing it (as in Rhino) is magnificent feature!

Re: object snaps

docara — Tue, 07 Nov 2017 17:43:13 GMT

Hi Jeff,

I feel your response here was disingenuous! Even though you posted an answer over a year ago, the link you pointed is now around 4 years old. You are on the developments team and part of the bumpf that is associated with F360 is that you listen to us - the users - to help direct the product.

At time of writing this 7th Nov '17 there are 234 votes for OSnaps and has been under consideration for at least a year I think it is about time this was implemented.

We often need to get something down quickly then home in on the precision, let us control how WE do that by controlling our own interface/GUI be it (auto / manual) constraints, OSnaps Colour of screen, colour of display, colour of lines, copying / moving items within the browser tree blah blah blah etc etc etc.

Matt