topic Re: Problem with zooming in Fusion Design, Validate & Document Forum

Problem with zooming

Anonymous — Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:10:45 GMT

Hi,

I have a problem zooming in and out to/from a model in Fusion 360. I've got a 3DConnexion SpacePilot Pro but the problem is the same with the "normal" mouse.

If I zoom in, near to the model, at a certain point the zoom speed becomes slower and slower until it almost completely stops zooming. If I then continue to zoom in it is like it does not zoom anymore for a couple of seconds and after that it suddenly is doing some kind of jump. Within the split of a second the zoom is being performed so strong that I jump behind the model in the view area.

It is very strange and hard to explain, sorry. I hope you get what I'm trying to say.

Does someone know why this is or even better, how to get rid it? I do not see this kind of behaviour in any other CAD/CAM software and it is pretty annoying.

Thanks and greets.

Re: Problem with zooming

Anonymous — Fri, 10 Feb 2017 14:01:13 GMT

This is pretty normal, in fact it happens in lots of software.

You can combat this by framing a part, which will reset the "scale" of your zoom.

From what I understand, and someone jump in and correct me if I'm wrong here, zooming, is scaled to a degree. As you get closer to what you're supposed to be looking at, the increment gets smaller. Immagine you're looking at an entire car, and you want to zoom in to a bolt on one of the wheels. If you zoomed 1cm for each turn of the mouse wheel it would take Forever to get there. But if it moved 1m for each turn, you'd have Zero control once you got close.

If you hold shift, and click the middle mouse once, you'll notice it creates a green dot. You actually would be rotating around that point. That SHOULD be the zoom point as well. But Fusion seems to disagree. I'm not sure why. So when that camera zoom extents gets off, you just have to select something small, frame it, and it will rescale the view so you can get the detail you need.

Re: Problem with zooming

Anonymous — Sat, 11 Feb 2017 13:12:41 GMT

Hi,

Thanks for your answer. I'm not a 100% sure if we are talking about the same thing. What you described sounds comprehensible to me but I think it is not the same thing I'm having trouble with.

This kind of behaviour is something I do not see in any other software, neither in CAD nor in CAM software. Let me try to capture a screen recording and put it on YouTube. I will come back and post the linke once done.

...

Here we go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMXNcT5tb2w

While I was zooming in I was constantly pulling the knob on the 3D mouse. As you can see it slows down in its movement the more the near I get to the model. Once I jumped behind the model, further zoom ins do work normal for a while. What I while means I cannot say. For a couple of minutes, seems not to be consistent.

Re: Problem with zooming

Anonymous — Mon, 13 Feb 2017 13:47:21 GMT

I think the underlying issue is actually the same.

But I'm curious, when you also try the mouse, are you zooming with the wheel, or with the hotkey and moving the mouse in/out?

I can't remember the zoom command, but it's something like ctrl+shift + RMB or something like that. I use too many different software. It's just muscle memory at this point (which isn't even all that good).

It still looks to me like they are setting the camera pivot point wrong. Maybe I explained that poorly before.

Within the distance between the model surface, and where the camera Is, the first bit of distance you should be able to move quickly. That speed should then scale back as you get closer.

In your video, it looks like that's working.....for a second. Then it looks like it's using a completely new scale, with the camera pivot Way off in the distance, so you bounce through the model quickly.

It's a pretty common problem. First, be sure you're connexion drivers are up to date. Just to be sure it's not them, but i doubt that because I have similar problems with the mouse and don't have a space pilot hooked up to this computer (and never have, it's a new computer).

I use other software that crashes Horribly when using a space pilot, so decided to just live without it. One was a rendering software, and if the space pilot got bumped, it would basically try and shake the entire scene back and forth quickly. That's never a good thing and Always caused a crash. That took a while to figure out.

Re: Problem with zooming

Anonymous — Thu, 16 Feb 2017 10:13:30 GMT

When I use the mouse to zoom in/out I just use the scroll wheel. The behavior is the same except it does not "block" that long. I guess this is because the wheel spins fast and therefore causes more zoom in triggers than the 3D mouse does. But the basic behavior is the same as is the basic problem.

I think I got what you've been trying to tell regarding the camera pivot point. Is the problem really related to that? I have no glue, honestly... 😉 Maybe this could be a good point for someone from Autodesk to jump in?

Of course I made sure that the drivers are up2date. And as I mentioned I do not see this kind of problem from within any other software I use it at. Those are CAD and CAM applications and I have a very smooth and fluid rotation/zomming in/zooming out in all of them. Only Fusion 360 is causing this kind of problem with the 3D mouse.

Do you know how to report this to Autodesk? I'm totally new to Fusion 360 so I don't know, right now. It would be cool if they could take a look to this because it is very annoying. It is even more annoying if you take into consideration that what you see from the screen recording I took is actually the "best-case" scenario. Very often if not most of the time it blocks way more/longer than what you can see from that short video.

Re: Problem with zooming

Anonymous — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 19:51:48 GMT

Hi There

I had this very same problem today and I am working on a model that started its lIfe as a 2D dwg created in autocad. The problem I found that was if I did a zoom to fit I had other sketch entities way out in model space that were not needed. Once deleted this effectively decreased the working model size and so the zoom function worked again. Not sure if this helps in your case but it worked for me and I was experiencing the exact same zoom issue that you described.

Thanks

Dean Watson

Re: Problem with zooming

Phil.E — Wed, 22 Mar 2017 21:15:48 GMT

We are aware of this issue and have tried to address it several times.

Inventor does it too. It has to do with as @Anonymous explained, the zoom increments and also level of detail. The graphics have to be drawn with more detail as you zoom in. The point where Fusion slows down is when this calculation is blocking more zooming.

It's not the same for each model, the shape of the model can affect it. Also perspective vs orthographic camera settings, with ortho being less of a problem.

You will also notice that after you zoom past the LOD limit, it picks up again because the graphics are calculated at the new scale.

Another point brought up was zooming to the center of the rotation. That is not how Fusion works. Fusion zooms to the mouse pointer (using scroll wheel). This is how it's always worked, and how Inventor works. People like it because they can zoom out and back in to another area quickly without panning.

In summary: The zooming problem is not because of 3Dconnexion, it is only more quickly revealed by spacemouse use. Your IdeaStation post might get more attention if you were more specific in your title, such as "Improve zooming with 3Dconnexion" or something like that, and the body of it should clearly spell out the challenge you face and how it impacts you.

Please also try some of the workarounds, such as using ortho camera and keep us posted with any other concerns or questions you have.

Thanks,

Re: Problem with zooming

Anonymous — Sat, 02 Sep 2017 03:48:14 GMT

Hi. I have exactly the same problem and I think you explained exactly what happens.

I have tried on 3 different computers using 2 types of wheel mouse Logitech G602 and MX Master.

It's not the mouse it's some function of Fusion. Also it does not happen all the time. I have tried re-framing using the zoom box etc. Nothing works and when it happens it's a real pain because I need to zoom in to pick up the detail or the edge or similar. I'm not just looking at it! This seems to have been going on for a while a fix would be good.

Re: Problem with zooming

Anonymous — Sat, 02 Sep 2017 10:07:55 GMT

Yep, somehow frustrating, isn't it. Honestly I have no idea what the technical reason is for this and even more honestly, I'm not interested in it at all... 😉

But what's true for me is:

I do not see this problem within any other software.
Once you are used to use a space mouse you do not want to miss it
This is a reason for me not to use Fusion which is really sad.

Re: Problem with zooming

Beyondforce — Sat, 02 Sep 2017 10:20:28 GMT

Hey @Anonymous and @Anonymous,

Have you tried to switch between Orthographic and Perspective. For zooming very close Orthographic is the best. If I just want to look at the model then I put it on Auto.

Cheers / Ben
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Re: Problem with zooming

Anonymous — Sat, 02 Sep 2017 10:33:39 GMT

Hi Ben,

You are right, it seems like Orthographic works better is not behaving that weird. I just gave it a try. But, I don't like that perspective, sorry... 😉 And I also do not like the idea of having to switch the perspective all the time.

Nevertheless, thanks for your input.

Best,

dialsc

Re: Problem with zooming

Beyondforce — Sat, 02 Sep 2017 10:38:37 GMT

As soon as we will get a descent NURBS Spline, I wouldn't mind to let this zoom problem slide 😉

I'm glad I could help.

Cheers/Ben

Re: Problem with zooming

mavigogun — Sat, 02 Sep 2017 14:30:14 GMT

Post 1- "I do not see this kind of behaviour in any other CAD/CAM software and it is pretty annoying."
Post 3- "This kind of behaviour is something I do not see in any other software, neither in CAD nor in CAM software."
Post 5- "And as I mentioned I do not see this kind of problem from within any other software I use it at. "
Post 9- "I do not see this problem within any other software."

An observation and some unsolicited advice:

You seem stuck on this.   If you want Fusion to be some other program, you'll never be happy with it- like wanting your spouse to be some other person.   And like that partner you're unhappy with, your friends will be attentive and ready listeners.   The first time.   Maybe the second.   By post 4, one starts to become relieved to hear "this is a reason for me not to use Fusion which is really sad".

If this- THIS -is a deal killer for you (we all have our own needs, that need not be justified), and you're content hearing from Fusion "it's not you- it's me.   I hope we can still be friends.   I'm sure you'll find happiness with a CAD program closer to your own age", then amicable separation may be best for... everybody.

But if you accept Fusion, flaws and all, for what it is, I reckon you could have a long and mostly happy relationship.   Judging from your Kudo-to-Post ratio, the kids would like to have you around, too.

Re: Problem with zooming

Anonymous — Sat, 02 Sep 2017 15:40:47 GMT

I'm pretty sure we can still be friends... 😉 Acctualy I wasn't even aware of the fact that I repeated my self 4 times, shame on me... 😉

Maybe this just happened because it is so annoying struggling with this hanging and jumping view area when zooming into the model so often which pulls me out of my workflow every time it happens because it blocks me from doing what I want to do right then. But, I wouldn't mention it (so often) if I wasn't interested in Fusion. I really like it. It is the best CAD/CAM combined software I know so far and it would be so awesome if it would just not have this issue. So I don't want Fusion to be another software, I want it to become even better for which getting rid of this odd thing could be a good candidate, as far as I think.

Well, I've learned you've got my point, don't you? So I'll go ahead and practice myself in silence now... 😉

Re: Problem with zooming

chengyun.yang — Sun, 03 Sep 2017 13:10:03 GMT

Hi,

>>>

This issue sounds very similar to one issue (FUS-33706: Zoom scroll increment progression is non-linear in magnitude ) we have fixed in Fusion. The fix will be available in the coming Fusion Sept 6 update. Please have a try in the new update and let us know if it works on your side.

Thanks

Chengyun

Fusion Development Team

Re: Problem with zooming

Anonymous — Sun, 03 Sep 2017 14:05:35 GMT

Hi,

That's very good news, thank you. I'll try it once it is out.

Best,

dialsc

Re: Problem with zooming

Anonymous — Sun, 03 Sep 2017 18:52:37 GMT

Thanks.

I look forward to trying it.

Re: Problem with zooming

Le_Bear — Mon, 11 Sep 2017 11:45:34 GMT

@chengyun.yang wrote:
The fix will be available in the coming Fusion Sept 6 update. Please have a try in the new update and let us know if it works on your side.

Is this update version 2.0.3302? (The last we got?) if yes, it's not fixed.

In 3DConnexion settings, I slowed down movments, and it works for panning and orbiting, but for zooming , IF IN PERSPECTIVE WITH ORTHO FACES, is almost uncontrollable, way too fast. If in Orthographic, it's almost too slow now! I may have to accelerate back a bit.

Using this Space navigator is so convenient, I would really like to get back to how it was before. I have not noticed exactly when this behavior changed, but in older versions, zooming movements were equivalents to panning and orbitting.

Re: Problem with zooming

Phil.E — Mon, 11 Sep 2017 16:33:20 GMT

@Le_Bear

You are describing the unfortunate side effect of fixing the bug mentioned in this thread.

Original problem:

In perspective camera, Zoom (mouse, trackpad* or 3Dconnexion) would slow down, like getting stuck in the mud, as you got closer to the model. It was maddening for so many customers that we decided to change the behavior to not slow down.

New problem:

Everything works as expected, except for this condition: Using 3Dconnexion and perspective camera is a bit too fast for most people. We are working on tweaking how Fusion uses 3Dconnexion to bring it back to the expected speed.

(internal reference: FUS-35063)

Workaround:

Use Orthographic camera, found in display settings.

*trackpad still shows the slowing problem when using perspective camera

Sorry for the trouble and thanks for letting us know it bothers you!

Regards,

Re: Problem with zooming

Le_Bear — Mon, 11 Sep 2017 18:35:26 GMT

Thanks for your answer, Phil.

I understand the relation between the fix, and the new problem. Indeed,I remember it was slow when getting very close, simply I was not getting that close (zoomed in) very often.
Hope you can find some "middle ground", even if I know full well it's not easy to make everybody happy....

take care,

Bernard