topic Re: Wire frame and generative shape design in Fusion Design, Validate & Document Forum

Wire frame and generative shape design

mufadal89 — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 09:41:53 GMT

Hello Fusion team ,

I'm a CATIA user - 5 years. Im curious as to whether you guys will be bringing in a Module in Fusion which is similar to that of Wireframe and generative shape design as in CATIA.

I have just started using Fusion 360 and im really impressed but for Surface modelling- Sheet metal I find it is easier to Model in Solid and then shell it. In CATIA I generally use generative shape design for complex brackets. It would be really great if something like that would be a part of fusion 360 .

commands like surface extrapolate, extract, intersect , project , etc .

Re: Wire frame and generative shape design

colin.smith — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 16:38:27 GMT

Hi @mufadal89,

Can you show an example of the types of parts you are creating in CATIA with their generative tools?

Thanks

Colin

Re: Wire frame and generative shape design

mufadal89 — Thu, 09 Mar 2017 12:43:12 GMT

Hello @colin.smith ,

I have attached an image of a sample bracket

It is just a concept made in CATIA .

Using generative shape design I was able to make the bracket very quickly by taking Multi extract from the mating surface and designing using that as reference.

Also there are tools like Parallel curve and intersect which allow me to use 3d Curves easily for split trim s.

When I try making the same type of bracket in Fusion 360 in Patch environment it takes a lot of time and there are no options for extracting surfaces.

I have to rely on solid modelling and then shelling .

In CATIA I can make these kind of brackets within 15- 20 mins but Fusion it takes me 1 hour although not with the same parametric ability.

Re: Wire frame and generative shape design

colin.smith — Thu, 09 Mar 2017 19:38:38 GMT

Hi @mufadal89,

I assume that the result isn't automated? You are using existing geometry to create the new part?

We don't have plans in our generative roadmap for this type of workflow. If you would be willing to show a video of this workflow we could consider it.

What type of tools are missing in the Patch environment?

Thanks

Colin

Re: Wire frame and generative shape design

TrippyLighting — Fri, 10 Mar 2017 02:18:54 GMT

@colin.smith wrote:

We don't have plans in our generative roadmap for this type of workflow.

Hmm..I did not even know you had one. Would you be able to share it ?

My admittedly spotty understanding of Autodesk understanding of generative design revolts around things such a DreamCatcher> I;'d call that generative mechanical design/engineering.

While that is certainly also interesting I am more interested in generative industrial design. E.g. Rhino Grasshopper, Autodesk Dynamo etc.

@mufadal89 Sorry for hijacking your thread. Just could not help myself ;-:

Re: Wire frame and generative shape design

mufadal89 — Fri, 10 Mar 2017 08:03:49 GMT

Hello @colin.smith

the result is not automated. It does not generate the shape on its own . I constructed it.

Generative shape design of CATIA = Patch / Surface design in Fusion

I'm sorry , unable to take a video to explain as CATIA is at my workplace .

I have just listed down the Surface design tools which I use in CATIA I find missing in Fusion

1. Extract - Extract a surface from a solid and use it to design as a reference

2. Intersect - I can intersect two surfaces to find a intersection curve in 3D

3. Connect - to connect irregular shapes smoothly I can use a command to connect two lines in space with tangency or curvature .

4. Polyline -Make Polyline in space using points (co ordinates)

5. Parallel curve - Select a surface and then select a curve lying on that surface then the curve can be offset by set dimension from its original position. (really helps in making complex flanges)

6. Project - Project 3d curves onto planes

and more ..

I am into Chassis design and I use these tools extensively .

My purpose and hope for this post is to may be convey the enhancement the patch environment requires with these powerful tools if not currently available.

Fusion 360 figures in my future plans for skill enhancement.

Thanks for your prompt replies

Mufaddal

Re: Wire frame and generative shape design

mufadal89 — Fri, 10 Mar 2017 08:05:58 GMT

@TrippyLighting that is not a problem , more learning for me 🙂

Re: Wire frame and generative shape design

CarlFrischmuth — Fri, 10 Mar 2017 10:51:09 GMT

some of this geometry is able to be created now, in fusion 360, i think the techniques to create it may be different, usually in the past with Catia Ive found that its more automated for some modeling / sketching tasks but the same results are not impossible to create in fusion now it just may take more steps. disclaimer - some might not be possible too...

extract is easy to do - just activate a new component and then use offset =0 (or sometimes with a small tolerance like 0.1etc ) in the patch tools to transfer your surface selections from any of your existing components / bodies etc used for reference into your new activated component. I use this a lot to build new matching components from others or copy bits to use for other complex interfaces between components in a design.

intersect - there isn't a easy ability to intersect two surfaces yet to generate an intersection curve - i initially found the icon confusing as it depicts this exact thing but doesn't deliver.

you can however use it (one of your surfaces possibly) to generate the inputs required for the intersection of two sketches which isn't the same but can be useful using an alternative method to get the same result.

connect - the 3D sketching tools (and creating mathematically good blend curves ) currently are pretty basic and not there yet. splines got a reasonable update just now in the March update but its not like using G2/G3 etc blend curves in alias between a number of 3D sketched curves.

polyline - creating curves from points (e.g. the output of some points from an equation imported in to a sketch to build a curve) is possible via a small free tool / script. I cant remember its name exactly from the top of my head right now but its possible Ive done it before just not recently (or one of the others may point it out before i get back to it) it will probably be in the free apps

parallel curve - the workflow for this may not be as simple as your used to but should be possible via other methods - do you have any images or non proprietary examples you can share?

project - there are a number of projection tools in the fusion sketching tools that enable some pretty awesome results. combined with extract above it can be used to make some complex 3D forms.

Ive seen some complex chassis designs for water trucks in the past, but it was a few years ago, it would be great to see some examples to try out whats possible with the current tools.

the model in the example image you have shown is probably possible now using the method described above for extract and then using trim in the patch tools & thicken perhaps.

cheers,

Carl

Re: Wire frame and generative shape design

colin.smith — Fri, 10 Mar 2017 13:48:11 GMT

Hi @TrippyLighting,

The term "generative" is a bit loose around these topics. The Fusion team sees generative tools as those that assist in the creation of a shape based on specific inputs given to the system. These include simulation based shape optimization tools, lattice generation like Within technologies, Dreamcatcher and Dynamo.

We will be releasing a preview of Within latticing working in Fusion in the second half of this year.

Colin

Re: Wire frame and generative shape design

colin.smith — Fri, 10 Mar 2017 13:49:45 GMT

@mufadal89, thanks for clarifying. As I mentioned in a post to @TrippyLighting, the term generative means different things depending on the context.

I will consider your list for our surfacing (Patch) roadmap.

Thanks

Colin

Re: Wire frame and generative shape design

CarlFrischmuth — Sun, 12 Mar 2017 12:58:27 GMT

Hi @colin.smith, when will the signup start for within lattice tools? will it be somewhere like June/July?? or later?

I've already signed up for within email updates on its own part of the site but haven't seen much out of there yet.

Cheers,

Carl

Re: Wire frame and generative shape design

mufadal89 — Sun, 12 Mar 2017 17:41:40 GMT

Thanks @colin.smith for considering the suggestions.

I have not yet dove deep into complex surface modelling on Fusion 360 . Once I do I will keep posting some videos on how workflows can be enhanced for easier design as CATIA is the benchmark.

Re: Wire frame and generative shape design

CarlFrischmuth — Mon, 13 Mar 2017 08:35:30 GMT

4. Polyline -Make Polyline in space using points (co ordinates)

There is a built in script to import points from a csv for a spline (refer attached image)

also to correct & clarify my comments on 3. connect - you can join separate 3d curves in the same 3d sketch with tangent (G1) and smooth / continuous (G2) constraints but cant infer continuity during modeling of surfaces (e.g. loft with 2 rails where one rail has G2 continuity inferred (or any of the profile curves or other rail)) or use higher curvature blend curves like G3 etc to blend 3d curves together as you can in other surface modelers like alias. I cant imagine you'd need to go to G2/G3 that often with chassis design but could be mistaken.