topic Re: Construction lines (like in Sketchup or other CAD systems) in Fusion Design, Validate & Document Forum

Construction lines (like in Sketchup or other CAD systems)

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 13:04:58 GMT

Used to be a big fan of Sketchup, and now switched to Fusion360 like it a lot for all the combined features.

But I do miss very much to work with the construction lines like in e.g. Sketchup both for straight lines parallel to others and for angels.

The great think is that the construction lines are infinite length and they are construction lines all the time and then do not interfere with the drawing/sketch. I am wondering if someone can guide to how to deal with this in Fusion360, and also this is a request to the developers to consider implementing same approach as in Sketchup.

Re: Construction lines (like in Sketchup or other CAD systems)

jeff_strater — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 13:23:06 GMT

Fusion supports construction lines in sketch. You just create a line, and choose "construction" from the sketch panel.

Construction is not limited to lines in Fusion - any curve can be marked "construction". Lines are not infinite in display, but you can use a line as if it's infinite anyway.

Jeff

Re: Construction lines (like in Sketchup or other CAD systems)

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 17:47:07 GMT

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for prompt answer including video.

It is just that I think it is a lot more difficult to place a number of construction lines, My habit when drawing is to place a number of construction lines from beginning, most goes in x or y direction and are parallel to x or y axis in a specific distance from the axis. It is just so easy in Sketchup only takes seconds, wheres here I find it much harder to place them correct. (I might be doing it wrong since I still do not have same experience with Fusion360 yet) e.g. a quick construction line parallel with x-axis and at a distance of like 10.3 mm ! ?

Br., allan

Re: Construction lines (like in Sketchup or other CAD systems)

davebYYPCU — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 22:39:08 GMT

Test the Sketch > Offset

copies the original a set distance, but you can't offset a line that was created with the Offset command, without removing the offset icon first.

Might help....

Re: Construction lines (like in Sketchup or other CAD systems)

cekuhnen — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 22:49:15 GMT

@Anonymous @jeff_strater

I teach SketchUp and Fusion actually in Interior Design so I am pretty familiar with what you mean.

The construction lines in SketchUp are more to be seen as guidelines.

Fusion does not have something like this - but also does not need it.

You can rather use colinear constraint and others to do it.

On architecture faces you can place in Fusion a sketch and draw your lines on it and use dimensions to adjust distances.

Those distances in a parametric modeler have names/ID and in other sketches you can make use of that ID. So that on a different

wall the window bottom part is the same distance away from the ground. It is if you want a little more generative.

I hope this helps - if not post some screenshots.

Best,

Claas

Re: Construction lines (like in Sketchup or other CAD systems)

jeff_strater — Fri, 16 Jun 2017 18:44:34 GMT

Hi @Anonymous,

I understand. I agree that the "infinite construction lines/guides" would be useful, but, to be honest, we've not heard a ton of requests for this. Partially, this reflects what @cekuhnen said that you really shouldn't need these in most cases. Most of what you can do with a guide you can do with a non-infinite construction line (including coincident, even if the coincidence is outside the bounds of the line).

Here is a quick video how to create a horizontal construction line at a set distance from the X axis:

Jeff

Re: Construction lines (like in Sketchup or other CAD systems)

cekuhnen — Fri, 16 Jun 2017 18:56:27 GMT

@jeff_strater @Anonymous @brianrepp

Yeah actually working in Fusion for architecture is ten folds better than using SketchUp.

Even while Fusion has a focus and background in mechanical engineering - the process they use is instantly

applicable to architecture design too. Components in SketchUp work the same like in Fusion for example.

The only advantage SketchUp has today is the amount of models one can download.

But for architecture modeling it is highly outdated and inferior.

I teach Fusion for furniture and fixture/hardware design and it can later save into SketchUp if needed

but also send the data to AutoCAD or Revit which makes Fusion even more an amazing design tool

for interior people.

If you have any struggles ping me in Skype: cekuhnen or such and I can help you make a transition to Fusion more.

It is a fantastic design platform.

Re: Construction lines (like in Sketchup or other CAD systems)

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Jun 2017 08:35:03 GMT

Thanks to everyone for video and good comments, nice to be in good hands here 🙂

Re: Construction lines (like in Sketchup or other CAD systems)

LogicSpeaks — Wed, 08 Nov 2017 17:38:43 GMT

So I still feel like there is an issue with the way construction lines differ from guides like SketchUp uses.

Maybe I just don't fully understand how to use it and maybe I'm also too used to using the SketchUp style of drawing and maybe need a professional course in CAD drawing but here's the beef I still have with construction lines:

Guides cannot be interfered with if locked - period. Construction lines seem to not give you this ability. If you fix the construction lines you can still select them, trim and extend, and maybe other things that I haven't tried yet.

Is there no way for us to lock them to have "zero" interference unless we "unfix" them or unlock them?

Obviously I can live with this - or I have to lol - but maybe I'm missing something. To be honest, I use both interchangeably all the time so maybe I'll just keep using both.

Re: Construction lines (like in Sketchup or other CAD systems)

Anonymous — Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:21:43 GMT

Quick video is right! So fast that it's harder to follow what you're doing than it is figure it out for for yourself. It's an instructional video that isn't..

Re: Construction lines (like in Sketchup or other CAD systems)

cekuhnen — Sun, 12 Nov 2017 16:51:38 GMT

@LogicSpeaks

yes you I are right that SketchUp guide lines are not the same as Fusion construction lines.

The advantage of SketchUp is how easy we can add them in 3D space.

In Fusion you also always need a 2d sketch on a face or sketchplane first which slows down the workflow significantly.

But the advantage of constructionlines and sketches in Fusion in general is that unlike SKetchUp we can add dimensions and other constrtaints

to them.

I find it very interest when students want to use SketchUp instead because it is so much easier as they say,

One the one side they dont know what they are actually talking about and in addition dont realize how crippled and inflexible SketchUp is.

Initially it is an easy software to learn basically because it hardly can do anything.

When students are tasked with modeling detailed work you end up with box design submissions because they limit themselves to the app.

Fusion takes a tick more to learn but then I️ strongly believe it is a dramatically better design tool particularly also for exploring design ideas.

I am not sure if you are also aware of the Direct Modeling mode without the timeline. Then Fusion fully works in a way like SketchUp should be.

When working with the timeline one can also add a base feature which is like a Direct Modeling module that is like inserting a static model into a parametric model.

Currently we use the Base Feature to build and host the architecture geometry and then use the timeline to design the interior design space around it.

Fusion really blows SketchUp out of the water here.

Re: Construction lines (like in Sketchup or other CAD systems)

LogicSpeaks — Sun, 12 Nov 2017 17:45:20 GMT

Hi @cekuhnen

I am mostly aware of everything you mentioned - my main gripe is the fact that there is no way to fully lock your guides so that you can't delete them, trim them, or move them - unless unlocked. Everything else I completely agree on. I think SketchUp has its uses for strictly being an easy and quick way to "realize" your idea - by sketching it in 3D.

However, I find Fusion to be a much better tool in every way you mentioned.

Maybe I'm missing something when it comes to using the construction lines effectively. But though I use them often - they seem to get in the way of things more than I would like. I generally end up just using the line tool and not create construction lines (though I fix them when I want to extrude while keeping the lines present). Maybe that's a mistake? Not sure yet as I haven't learned this program from a professional environment - just through Autodesk's tutorial system and YouTube (like some of your videos which are fantastic).

Maybe because SketchUp was my first piece of software it ingrained this need for using the tape-measure tool instead of the dimension tool and other constraints. I think this is my weakest link - is getting used to using constraints as often as I can.

I'm wondering - when you teach your workshops - what is your approach when to use construction lines and when not to use them? Is there a right answer to this?

Thanks again for responding btw, this is really helpful!

Re: Construction lines (like in Sketchup or other CAD systems)

cekuhnen — Sun, 12 Nov 2017 18:10:14 GMT

@LogicSpeaks

You are not missing something. Guides in SketchUp are truly guide lines in 3D you can snap to like guides in Freehand or Illustrator.

They are independent from the geometry.

Funion operates differently while having some similarities.

What confuses (confused me to art first) new users that are not accustom to a sketch solver is that while SketchUp or Rhino are free form based modelers

Fusion and basically all feature based parametric modelers are 2D based.

in Rhino or SketchUp you use the rotate tool to rotate a sketch - in Fusion you are use an angle dimension to specify that rotation.

I think you are pretty spot on that you come with the approach known from SketchUp and now wonder how that would translate to Fusion.

While in Sketchup you can use the measure tape to add guidelines particularly in architecture useful for putting down a line for where windows start

Fusion can somewhat do the same and offer more options to do it too.

First you can simply draw a line and then make it a construction line type thus it cannot be used for modeling.

You can use the fix constraint to fix the line or line endpoints so it cannot be moved.

What is very frustrating in Fusion and parametric modelers is that snapping basically works great inside a sketch only.

Snapping I have to say in Fusion is not solved well when working with different types of geometry.

In this case one can project a construction line from one sketch to another sketch which is for parametric modeling a common task to do and good to have

but often this adds a lot of silly extra labor work.

Inside the sketch Fusion also offers pretty nice auto snapping and alignment tools like horizontal and vertical alignment

and constraints can help a lot to to make sure elements are parallel collinear vertical or horizontal aligned without even needing guides.

I personally use construction lines mainly only when needing to do a symmetry (mirror).

However could you post a screenshot so I could better see where you would apply guidelines?